4 ms·

Burglary (entry for the purposes of committing an offense) is broken down into three sub-categories: forcible entry, unlawful entry where no force is used, and

by dsl 14y ago

Burglary (entry for the purposes of committing an offense) is broken down into three sub-categories: forcible entry, unlawful entry where no force is used, and attempted forcible entry. It doesn't matter if you use a tank or a paperclip, or even if you're successful. You're not the first person to think up the "but it wasn't locked (very well)!" defense. :)

marshray 14y ago
Of course, but then we ought to apply reasonable standards of trespass before we can talk of federal-level "breaking and entering". He was present as a guest on MIT campus and the trespassing charges had even been dropped. Show me a university campus where the students don't poke around in unlocked basements and closets and I'll show you a worthless university.
- dsl 14y ago
  Entering a wiring closet with a lawful excuse is permitted. You genuinely thought it was the door to the bathroom, or smelled smoke. Entering a wiring closet with lawful intent but not a lawful excuse is trespass. For example someone left a light on and you wanted to turn it off. The property owner can generally have you removed and file a civil case. Entering a wiring closet with unlawful intent is a crime. For example your MAC address has been blocked from the wireless network and you intend to plug in to avoid that block. So hopefully it makes sense now. They can't just charge him for breaking into the closet (unless he did property damage), but they can charge him in addition to another crime (and you can argue till your blue in the face if THAT was a crime, I don't have an opinion). Its like the magical "with intent to distribute" if you cut up your drugs into lots of little baggies. (IANAL, but I did have one explain this stuff to me years ago in relation to an employee termination)
  - marshray 14y ago
    So if he entered a supply closet at the library to borrow a pen, and then he evaded taxes with that pen, he "broke in" even if the library allowed people to borrow pens from that unlocked closet?
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Breaking into a supply closet is not a fact that helps establish any element of tax fraud.
      - marshray 14y ago
        So it's "breaking in" if it helps the prosecution's case, by definition. What a weird system.
        foxbunny 14y ago
        "What a weird system." A little yeah. But check this out. If you steal something, you won't automatically go to jail. Someone has to sue you because of that first. Same thing, I think.
- tptacek 14y ago
  He wasn't charged with breaking & entering. The fact of his "breaking in" to the wiring closet was used to establish his intent and understanding that his actions were unauthorized. It's part of a pattern of facts that established the elements required to charge him with fraud.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Well somehow the press and everyone started reporting that Aaron "broke in" to the closet where the wires were gathered and I figured they were using a legal term of art. If we can s/broke in/entered/ without changing the meaning, then this "breaking" use sounds like pure spin.
    - mindslight 14y ago
      It's spin (the closet was quite unmaintained given its dual use as a homeless shelter), but it's also legally meaningful when talking about the network access he obtained in there.

by dsl 14y ago

marshray 14y ago

Of course, but then we ought to apply reasonable standards of trespass before we can talk of federal-level "breaking and entering". He was present as a guest on MIT campus and the trespassing charges had even been dropped. Show me a university campus where the students don't poke around in unlocked basements and closets and I'll show you a worthless university.

dsl 14y ago
Entering a wiring closet with a lawful excuse is permitted. You genuinely thought it was the door to the bathroom, or smelled smoke. Entering a wiring closet with lawful intent but not a lawful excuse is trespass. For example someone left a light on and you wanted to turn it off. The property owner can generally have you removed and file a civil case. Entering a wiring closet with unlawful intent is a crime. For example your MAC address has been blocked from the wireless network and you intend to plug in to avoid that block. So hopefully it makes sense now. They can't just charge him for breaking into the closet (unless he did property damage), but they can charge him in addition to another crime (and you can argue till your blue in the face if THAT was a crime, I don't have an opinion). Its like the magical "with intent to distribute" if you cut up your drugs into lots of little baggies. (IANAL, but I did have one explain this stuff to me years ago in relation to an employee termination)
- marshray 14y ago
  So if he entered a supply closet at the library to borrow a pen, and then he evaded taxes with that pen, he "broke in" even if the library allowed people to borrow pens from that unlocked closet?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Breaking into a supply closet is not a fact that helps establish any element of tax fraud.
    - marshray 14y ago
      So it's "breaking in" if it helps the prosecution's case, by definition. What a weird system.
      - foxbunny 14y ago
        "What a weird system." A little yeah. But check this out. If you steal something, you won't automatically go to jail. Someone has to sue you because of that first. Same thing, I think.
tptacek 14y ago
He wasn't charged with breaking & entering. The fact of his "breaking in" to the wiring closet was used to establish his intent and understanding that his actions were unauthorized. It's part of a pattern of facts that established the elements required to charge him with fraud.
- marshray 14y ago
  Well somehow the press and everyone started reporting that Aaron "broke in" to the closet where the wires were gathered and I figured they were using a legal term of art. If we can s/broke in/entered/ without changing the meaning, then this "breaking" use sounds like pure spin.
  - mindslight 14y ago
    It's spin (the closet was quite unmaintained given its dual use as a homeless shelter), but it's also legally meaningful when talking about the network access he obtained in there.