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His father's words may be a little too strong, but they're not entirely off-base either. Yes, they are off base. He deserves leeway due to the untold grief he
by sethist 14y ago
His father's words may be a little too strong, but they're not entirely off-base either.
Yes, they are off base. He deserves leeway due to the untold grief he is enduring, but a statement like that is ridiculous. Thousands of people a day go to jail a day, many of them for breaking unjust laws, and very few of them kill themselves. He was killed by depression/mental illness not by the government. The charges likely exasperated his condition, but without that underlining fragile mental state, he would almost assuredly still be alive today.
- politician 14y agoa: In a drive-by shooting, the driver is often charged along with the shooter; even when the driver insists that he didn't know what was going to happen. b: The defense attorney claimed that he made Stephen Heymann aware of the suicide risk early in the case. If Heymann was aware of the risk and pushed ahead anyway, is he a contributor in the same sense that the driver of the car is a contributor? Why or why not?
- mc32 14y agoAre you saying one should not sue, or at least weigh heavily, people's mental state prior to launching a lawsuit? Is that current procedure, run mental evaluations before suing? Lots of people have mental breakdowns before and during trials. The trials proceed so long as people are 'mentally competent' to stand trial. If something like this were allowed, people would pretty much abuse the system and claim mental anguish, etc. to avoid facing a trial.
- politician 14y agoAren't you aware that we already do take into account the mental states of defendants - the mentally challenged, the insane?
- mc32 14y agoIn extreme cases, yes. People are put on suicide watches, but the trials proceed. The bar for being considered 'insane' and 'mentally unfit' is very high. You have people who would colloquially be considered 'crazy' go to trial, represent themselves, etc.
- politician 14y agoBut that did not happen here, did it? Does that make Heymann a contributor?
- mc32 14y agoI don't think so. It's a really tenous connection. It's like saying me getting on the freeway contributed to an accident which happens 10 minutes behind me. Sure, maybe if I had not gotten on the freeway that would have caused a different pattern of traffic on the freeway so that the accident would not have happened, but in no way would I be a direct contributor.
- politician 14y agoWould you change your mind if you were warned that by getting on the freeway there stood a serious above average risk of causing a accident?
- sethist 14y agoIn those cases isn't it due to the fact that the defendant is unable to mentally process their crime, trial, or potential punishment?
- politician 14y agoThe fact that the boy is dead is grim proof that he was "unable to mentally process his potential punishment".
- 14y ago
- sethist 14y agoRegarding your second point, are you suggesting the legal system should go easy on criminals who may be suicidal? I just think it is foolish to start blaming every entity that could have contributed to his mental state. Hypothetically speaking, if he had recently broken up with someone or was fired from a job would we claim that they killed him? No, they would simply be catalysts that might have contributed to his ultimate decision.