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Petition to reform the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

39 points by jmediast 14y ago

dsr_ 14y ago
It's a workable first step. Some suggestions: You need to actually suggest new wording. Lawyers can be consulted -- does the EFF propose model legislation? Perhaps it should. Convincing your senators and representatives that this is an injustice that needs to be fixed would help.
brandonsavage 14y ago
The problem is wider than the CFRA. The problem is with criminal prosecution of citizens that were not intending to commit a crime. Criminal intent is a cornerstone of our legal system but more and more it's becoming unimportant in prosecutions.
- jeffool 14y ago
  I've always heard the phrase "ignorance of the law excuses no one". Now, should it? In many cases maybe so, but we all know the obvious cases where it probably shouldn't. But to assume that intent is the rule of thumb or has been since... Well, I'm 32 and have never understood it to be. To assume that it is, is odd to me. That's genuinely an attitude I've never heard argued by someone who wasn't an accused party.
  - brandonsavage 14y ago
    The concept that ignorance of the law is not an excuse is certainly critical here. The principle exists since it would be easy to simply claim ignorance. At the same time, the concept of "mens rea" or "a guilty mind" plays an important part in criminal law. If you knew what you were doing was wrong, and you did it anyway, that establishes intent. For example, you can't typically be punished for trespassing until you've been told you are trespassing (hence signs that say "Posted - No Tresspassing"). Once you continue onto the property, you've committed the act overtly, and are therefore guilty of a crime.
teyc 14y ago
Do you think Pussyriot would be free today if there were no laws against "hooliganism and incitement of religious hatred"? Once the prosecutors go after someone, they will try to win at all costs, to the point of ruining someone and their family members.
- michaelfeathers 14y ago
  That is the issue that needs a petition.
- rprasad 14y ago
  Wrong country. If they had pulled those stunts in America, 2 of them wouldn't be sitting in a prison cell right now.
wbhart 14y ago
I think the danger with encouraging lawmakers ignorant of how computers work to make more laws is that they will not actually improve things.
- jmediast 14y ago
  I'm not sure I'd worry about that... if the proposed laws were worse, then I think you'd see another SOPA/PIPA style reaction. And then you have to consider the chances that a response from the administration will actually start an investigation / reformation. For better or worse though, I guess I'm willing to see where it goes.
rprasad 14y ago
This petition is guranteed to fail. The domain of writing, passing, and modifying laws is the domain of Congress, not the President. You can pester the President all you want, but it is not within his Constitutional powers to do anything about the law. (Indeed, even announcing that the DOJ should not enforce the law is a potentially impeachable offense depending on the political environment.) If you want the CFAA reformed, call, write, and/or meet with your Congressional Rep and Senator and tell them what you think of the law.
- SkyMarshal 14y ago
  It's a useful vehicle for starting the process, bringing attention to the issue, clearly explaining what and why, providing a single point of action for people to focus on, and gauging support. If all that goes well and the petition gets enough signatures and visibility, then that's a good point to segue off into the more difficult organizational problem of getting all those people to actually call their rep. Additionally, the President has to sign such a law eventually anyway, so starting movements with a plea to the President has some benefit in that regard as well.
  - rprasad 14y ago
    It's a useful vehicle for starting the process, bringing attention to the issue, clearly explaining what and why, providing a single point of action for people to focus on, and gauging support. What would be more useful is actually contacting your Congressperson and telling them. If you want you can simply read the petition. But signing this petition won't accomplish anything. If all that goes well and the petition gets enough signatures and visibility, then that's a good point to segue off into the more difficult organizational problem of getting all those people to actually call their rep. Why do you need to organize getting people to call? Just call them. Once you've called them, ask or convince (gently) two other people to call. Critical mass to get the ball rolling is usually about two dozen calls on the same issue (simply because so few people actually bother to use the phone for this anymore).
- ScottWhigham 14y ago
  I love how this is being downvoted not by people who are upset at the inaccuracy of what you posted but rather out of either ignorance of how our country's government is designed to work, or those who are angry for some reason and take it out on your poor, little downvote arrow. What you've said is 100% true and starting/signing a petition such is this is the very epitome of slactivism. As @nhebb here said recently, " Slacktivism is like leveling up in a video game. It gives you the sense of accomplishment, even though you haven't done jack shit in real life."

39 points by jmediast 14y ago

dsr_ 14y ago

It's a workable first step. Some suggestions: You need to actually suggest new wording. Lawyers can be consulted -- does the EFF propose model legislation? Perhaps it should. Convincing your senators and representatives that this is an injustice that needs to be fixed would help.

brandonsavage 14y ago

The problem is wider than the CFRA. The problem is with criminal prosecution of citizens that were not intending to commit a crime. Criminal intent is a cornerstone of our legal system but more and more it's becoming unimportant in prosecutions.

jeffool 14y ago
I've always heard the phrase "ignorance of the law excuses no one". Now, should it? In many cases maybe so, but we all know the obvious cases where it probably shouldn't. But to assume that intent is the rule of thumb or has been since... Well, I'm 32 and have never understood it to be. To assume that it is, is odd to me. That's genuinely an attitude I've never heard argued by someone who wasn't an accused party.
- brandonsavage 14y ago
  The concept that ignorance of the law is not an excuse is certainly critical here. The principle exists since it would be easy to simply claim ignorance. At the same time, the concept of "mens rea" or "a guilty mind" plays an important part in criminal law. If you knew what you were doing was wrong, and you did it anyway, that establishes intent. For example, you can't typically be punished for trespassing until you've been told you are trespassing (hence signs that say "Posted - No Tresspassing"). Once you continue onto the property, you've committed the act overtly, and are therefore guilty of a crime.

teyc 14y ago

Do you think Pussyriot would be free today if there were no laws against "hooliganism and incitement of religious hatred"? Once the prosecutors go after someone, they will try to win at all costs, to the point of ruining someone and their family members.

michaelfeathers 14y ago
That is the issue that needs a petition.
rprasad 14y ago
Wrong country. If they had pulled those stunts in America, 2 of them wouldn't be sitting in a prison cell right now.

wbhart 14y ago

I think the danger with encouraging lawmakers ignorant of how computers work to make more laws is that they will not actually improve things.

jmediast 14y ago
I'm not sure I'd worry about that... if the proposed laws were worse, then I think you'd see another SOPA/PIPA style reaction. And then you have to consider the chances that a response from the administration will actually start an investigation / reformation. For better or worse though, I guess I'm willing to see where it goes.

rprasad 14y ago

This petition is guranteed to fail. The domain of writing, passing, and modifying laws is the domain of Congress, not the President. You can pester the President all you want, but it is not within his Constitutional powers to do anything about the law. (Indeed, even announcing that the DOJ should not enforce the law is a potentially impeachable offense depending on the political environment.) If you want the CFAA reformed, call, write, and/or meet with your Congressional Rep and Senator and tell them what you think of the law.

SkyMarshal 14y ago
It's a useful vehicle for starting the process, bringing attention to the issue, clearly explaining what and why, providing a single point of action for people to focus on, and gauging support. If all that goes well and the petition gets enough signatures and visibility, then that's a good point to segue off into the more difficult organizational problem of getting all those people to actually call their rep. Additionally, the President has to sign such a law eventually anyway, so starting movements with a plea to the President has some benefit in that regard as well.
- rprasad 14y ago
  It's a useful vehicle for starting the process, bringing attention to the issue, clearly explaining what and why, providing a single point of action for people to focus on, and gauging support. What would be more useful is actually contacting your Congressperson and telling them. If you want you can simply read the petition. But signing this petition won't accomplish anything. If all that goes well and the petition gets enough signatures and visibility, then that's a good point to segue off into the more difficult organizational problem of getting all those people to actually call their rep. Why do you need to organize getting people to call? Just call them. Once you've called them, ask or convince (gently) two other people to call. Critical mass to get the ball rolling is usually about two dozen calls on the same issue (simply because so few people actually bother to use the phone for this anymore).
ScottWhigham 14y ago
I love how this is being downvoted not by people who are upset at the inaccuracy of what you posted but rather out of either ignorance of how our country's government is designed to work, or those who are angry for some reason and take it out on your poor, little downvote arrow. What you've said is 100% true and starting/signing a petition such is this is the very epitome of slactivism. As @nhebb here said recently, " Slacktivism is like leveling up in a video game. It gives you the sense of accomplishment, even though you haven't done jack shit in real life."