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As someone who builds app for big brands (Conde Nast, Nike, Porsche, etc.) I will not use this, despite any desire to actually do so. Why? You're shipping me

by jawngee 14y ago

As someone who builds app for big brands (Conde Nast, Nike, Porsche, etc.) I will not use this, despite any desire to actually do so. Why? You're shipping me a binary only. I want the source. I don't want to wait for you to fix some shit that you may or may not get around to doing. I have a really strict rule about this when it comes to client work, even stricter for personal work. Your idea that I should base an entire application on a closed source binary that may or may not work is customer hostile, imho. You are inadvertently leaving customers out to dry when something breaks or doesn't work correctly. Unless your company has a team of devs ready to handle these cases ... Would have been a good idea when the component market was roaring in the Borland Delphi days, but we're in the future now were open source is the way to go. Pass.

hnriot 14y ago
This is crazy, you're already using closed source when you link with the SDK, which links with numerous other closed source components.
- jawngee 14y ago
  God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. That applies here.
- reidmain 14y ago
  UIKit is designed to be built upon. A lot of Apple stuff may be a black box but it is designed to be subclassed. This is really an all or nothing affair. Either this works perfectly for you or you are shit out of luck and you have to compromise to fit inside their box.
  - Zev 14y ago
    A lot of Apple stuff may be a black box but it is designed to be subclassed. Aside from a small number of top-level classes[1] UIKit isn't designed to be subclassed. When you subclass things like UIAlertView, UIButton, UISwitch, UITextField, UIWebView… etc, you're in for a world undocumented gotchas and spending hours to do small simple things. 1. UIView, UIControl, UITableViewCell, UIScrollView, UIGestureRecognizer, UIViewController, UIApplication and maybe one or two other classes.
    - reidmain 14y ago
      And you've listed about 90% of the things I usual end up subclassing because I've hit some limitation. Also I wasn't talking specifically about UIKit. Foundation is another great framework that I've subclassed many times. It's not perfect but Apple puts a lot of work into documenting how to subclass their frameworks. Third-party UI frameworks like this are much less forgiving.
      - Zev 14y ago
        Can you give an example of some things that you subclass?
        reidmain 14y ago
        From Foundation? NSDictionary, NSArray and NSOperation instantly jump to mind.
        Zev 14y ago
        What do you get out of subclassing NSDictionary or NSArray that you don't get out of a category?
        reidmain 14y ago
        Well in this case I subclassed them so I could have the backing data source only weakly reference the items in the dictionary/array and because I subclassed them I can use them wherever NSDictionary or NSArray is an accepted parameter. Apple's documentation also gives some examples: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSArray_Class/NSArray.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000137-740795 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa... https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSDictionary_Class/Reference/Reference.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000140-DontLinkElementID_1 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa...
aaronbrethorst 14y ago
I'm really torn about this. I was a Kickstarter backer of Pixate, and I love their tools, but I brought up the exact same concern to them over a few months ago. The response I got from them can best be paraphrased as 'we'll do our best'[1]. Accordingly, I'll likely use Pixate for apps shipped under my own brand, but I'd never use it for client work until this situation is resolved. The risk is simply too great. There's an open source solution that does roughly the same thing but not as nicely, called NUI (http://www.cocoacontrols.com/platforms/ios/controls/nui http://www.cocoacontrols.com/platforms/ios/controls/nui), that you might want to check out. [1] In case Paul or Kevin see this and want more context, the reply I got was via Kickstarter on July 24 2012 at 8:40AM Pacific.
- pcolton 14y ago
  Pixate is not an all-or-nothing solution. You can just style what you want via CSS, and do the rest in code. Do it all in code and just inline some CSS if you like. This isn't a "use UIKit or us" type of decision, but more of a "how can I write a lot less code and more dynamically style my apps". Lastly, at the Enterprise level, we offer source code escrow.
kurtpimentel 14y ago
Local to Dallas?

by jawngee 14y ago

hnriot 14y ago

This is crazy, you're already using closed source when you link with the SDK, which links with numerous other closed source components.

jawngee 14y ago
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. That applies here.
reidmain 14y ago
UIKit is designed to be built upon. A lot of Apple stuff may be a black box but it is designed to be subclassed. This is really an all or nothing affair. Either this works perfectly for you or you are shit out of luck and you have to compromise to fit inside their box.
- Zev 14y ago
  A lot of Apple stuff may be a black box but it is designed to be subclassed. Aside from a small number of top-level classes[1] UIKit isn't designed to be subclassed. When you subclass things like UIAlertView, UIButton, UISwitch, UITextField, UIWebView… etc, you're in for a world undocumented gotchas and spending hours to do small simple things. 1. UIView, UIControl, UITableViewCell, UIScrollView, UIGestureRecognizer, UIViewController, UIApplication and maybe one or two other classes.
  - reidmain 14y ago
    And you've listed about 90% of the things I usual end up subclassing because I've hit some limitation. Also I wasn't talking specifically about UIKit. Foundation is another great framework that I've subclassed many times. It's not perfect but Apple puts a lot of work into documenting how to subclass their frameworks. Third-party UI frameworks like this are much less forgiving.
    - Zev 14y ago
      Can you give an example of some things that you subclass?
      - reidmain 14y ago
        From Foundation? NSDictionary, NSArray and NSOperation instantly jump to mind.
        Zev 14y ago
        What do you get out of subclassing NSDictionary or NSArray that you don't get out of a category?
        reidmain 14y ago
        Well in this case I subclassed them so I could have the backing data source only weakly reference the items in the dictionary/array and because I subclassed them I can use them wherever NSDictionary or NSArray is an accepted parameter. Apple's documentation also gives some examples: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSArray_Class/NSArray.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000137-740795 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa... https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSDictionary_Class/Reference/Reference.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000140-DontLinkElementID_1 https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/Cocoa...

aaronbrethorst 14y ago

I'm really torn about this. I was a Kickstarter backer of Pixate, and I love their tools, but I brought up the exact same concern to them over a few months ago. The response I got from them can best be paraphrased as 'we'll do our best'[1]. Accordingly, I'll likely use Pixate for apps shipped under my own brand, but I'd never use it for client work until this situation is resolved. The risk is simply too great. There's an open source solution that does roughly the same thing but not as nicely, called NUI (http://www.cocoacontrols.com/platforms/ios/controls/nui http://www.cocoacontrols.com/platforms/ios/controls/nui), that you might want to check out. [1] In case Paul or Kevin see this and want more context, the reply I got was via Kickstarter on July 24 2012 at 8:40AM Pacific.

pcolton 14y ago
Pixate is not an all-or-nothing solution. You can just style what you want via CSS, and do the rest in code. Do it all in code and just inline some CSS if you like. This isn't a "use UIKit or us" type of decision, but more of a "how can I write a lot less code and more dynamically style my apps". Lastly, at the Enterprise level, we offer source code escrow.

kurtpimentel 14y ago

Local to Dallas?