4 ms·

I would not have thought that retroactive tax bills were legal. Are there any other common examples or is this a new precedent?

jivatmanx 14y ago
The SC ruled that the retroactive immunity given to telecom companies was legal. I'm pretty sure "Ex Post Facto" is dead.
- rayiner 14y ago
  Ex post facto is not synonymous with "retroactive." See the post by David Redden in this thread: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/ex-post-facto-law http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/ex-post-facto-law. "Secondly, while there’s some evidence that some of the “framers” thought “ex post facto” included civil laws, it’s well-established that the most influential federalists in the late 18th Century understood an “ex post facto law” to mean a law that was 1) criminal, 2) functioned retroactively, and 3) worked to the detriment of the accused. (See Crosskey, The True Meaning of the Constitutional Prohibition of Ex-Post Facto Laws, 14 U.Chi.L.Rev. 539 (1947))."
- _delirium 14y ago
  The Supreme Court ruled in Calder v. Bull (1798) that the prohibition on ex-post-facto laws applies only to criminal laws, not civil matters. One could argue that shouldn't be the case, but it's not a later shift away from the 18th-century interpretation.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Retroactive immunity is rather the opposite of retroactive criminalization.
pyre 14y ago
The more troubling part is that he's claiming that they are charging interest and penalties on the 'unpaid taxes.' To retroactively change your bill, then charge you interest and penalties for 'late payment' seems well over-the-top. If I didn't know better, I'd say that they was a blatant money grab. </sarcasm>
ceejayoz 14y ago
Virtually every year TurboTax tells me I can't submit my return because they're still writing the rules for the year that just finished.
aresant 14y ago
The funny thing is that this isn't even the only one that CA is imposing, the entirety of Prop 30 (voted on in Nov 2012) is retroactive for the entire tax year.
jere 14y ago
>No State shall... pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States This situation was instigated by a successful lawsuit against the FTB. I wonder if another one is on the way. According to this, however, courts have ruled that retroactive tax laws are not considered ex post facto.

jivatmanx 14y ago

The SC ruled that the retroactive immunity given to telecom companies was legal. I'm pretty sure "Ex Post Facto" is dead.

rayiner 14y ago
Ex post facto is not synonymous with "retroactive." See the post by David Redden in this thread: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/ex-post-facto-law http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/ex-post-facto-law. "Secondly, while there’s some evidence that some of the “framers” thought “ex post facto” included civil laws, it’s well-established that the most influential federalists in the late 18th Century understood an “ex post facto law” to mean a law that was 1) criminal, 2) functioned retroactively, and 3) worked to the detriment of the accused. (See Crosskey, The True Meaning of the Constitutional Prohibition of Ex-Post Facto Laws, 14 U.Chi.L.Rev. 539 (1947))."
_delirium 14y ago
The Supreme Court ruled in Calder v. Bull (1798) that the prohibition on ex-post-facto laws applies only to criminal laws, not civil matters. One could argue that shouldn't be the case, but it's not a later shift away from the 18th-century interpretation.
mikeash 14y ago
Retroactive immunity is rather the opposite of retroactive criminalization.

pyre 14y ago

The more troubling part is that he's claiming that they are charging interest and penalties on the 'unpaid taxes.' To retroactively change your bill, then charge you interest and penalties for 'late payment' seems well over-the-top. If I didn't know better, I'd say that they was a blatant money grab. </sarcasm>

ceejayoz 14y ago

Virtually every year TurboTax tells me I can't submit my return because they're still writing the rules for the year that just finished.

aresant 14y ago

The funny thing is that this isn't even the only one that CA is imposing, the entirety of Prop 30 (voted on in Nov 2012) is retroactive for the entire tax year.

jere 14y ago

>No State shall... pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States This situation was instigated by a successful lawsuit against the FTB. I wonder if another one is on the way. According to this, however, courts have ruled that retroactive tax laws are not considered ex post facto.