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You're right, it's a tragic situation where a bright young man extinguished his own flame. Emotions are so raw that no matter what he says right now, it will no

You're right, it's a tragic situation where a bright young man extinguished his own flame. Emotions are so raw that no matter what he says right now, it will not be well received. Even if what he is saying is accurate. But frankly, I'm disappointed the coverage has stopped being about suicide prevention. Nobody should ever take their own life, and if you are feeling like life is not worth living please immediately call 1-800-273-8255. Thanks. p.s.: I'd appreciate responses for downvotes, as I know this isn't popular, but would enjoy a real discussion.

_delirium 14y ago
> Nobody should ever take their own life I guess I personally disagree with this, at least for my own personal utility function. I would prefer suicide over a lengthy prison term, and I think that's the rational choice, at least with the inhumane conditions in American prisons. And you have to make that decision before sentencing, unfortunately, because courts often order suicide watches around the time of sentencing, precisely because many people share that preference. I agree with you in cases where you have an option of continuing to live as a free man, however. In those cases seeming dead ends are usually irrational, borne of depressive pessimism. And treatment can make the situation improve and make it clear that there are ways out. But a lengthy prison term is an actual dead end, and treatment can't produce ways out of it. When someone kills themselves to avoid torture, it's the fault of the torturer.
- gavinlynch 14y ago
  I think this is a dangerous thought and I'm sorry you feel that way.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - tejaswiy 14y ago
    It's a tradeoff. 6 months? Probably manageable. 30 years? No, thank you.
- 3825 14y ago
  >at least with the inhumane conditions in American prisons Should we, as people who are not currently in prison, not try to make prison living conditions better instead? Some things that come to mind are: 1. Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison. 2. Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison for a longer time. 3. We should ensure full physical security for prisoners. I am willing to entertain the idea of making common lunch / shower areas optional. A prisoner ought to have the option to not be in physical proximity of other prisoners if necessary. 4. There should be a way to report bad behavior / torture by other prisoners or by guards. I think the question to ask here is not whether death is better than prison... What can we do to make our prisons better?
  - rolux 14y ago
    > Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison. I agree with your sentiment, but... are you aware of the fact that a large part of the US prison system is run by private corporations that have clear profit motives, and even seek contractually guaranteed occupancy levels? Edit, link: http://annarbor.com/news/opinion/passing-house-bill-will-worsen-already-pressing-civil-rights-issue/ http://annarbor.com/news/opinion/passing-house-bill-will-wor... Money quote: "In 2012, [the Corrections Corporations of America] sent a letter to 'prison officials in 48 states offering to buy prisons from these states in exchange for a 20-year management contract and a guaranteed occupancy rate of 90%.'"
    - 3825 14y ago
      Yes, that was what I was getting at. While we are at it, traffic tickets as a revenue source or actually any fine as a revenue source is potentially bad.
      - gavinlynch 14y ago
        This i can agree with. Not that it's particularly clever, but I've been referring to most of these issues as Cowards Taxes. Because the politicians who need to cover budget potholes are too cowardly to ask the people to increase taxes to cover expenses, and instead use this absurd backdoor tactic under the guise of "safety". Things like red light cameras adhere to the letter but not the spirit of the law, it's unjust and we all know it. Man up. Raise taxes, or cut expenses. You can't have it both ways.
- zero_intp 14y ago
  Live free or die trying
throwit1979 14y ago
Nobody should ever take their own life With all due respect, sir, this is simply not true. Oftentimes, choosing nonexistence to loss of freedom, prison rape, and in general the hollow, empty existence of a caged animal is NOT an irrational choice.
- gadders 14y ago
  I've often wondered whether they should let people sentenced to life without possibility of parole the option of voluntary euthanasia. Probably not necessary for the threat of 6 months at Club Fed. Martha Stewart managed five months.
webology 14y ago
I agree with you, it's sad, and I'm disappointed as well. Depression and mental illness are misunderstood and it's a shame no good will come from this. Instead of awareness, it's now a political cause. Yet another reason why I seldom read comments.
vy8vWJlco 14y ago
Just my 2 cents: I certainly wish no one ever felt depressed, so I definitely support prevention. (If someone's depressed: 1, eat well, 2, sleep well, 3, do things you love, even small ones, and 4, don't isolate yourself!) At the same time, the right to choose how to use your body has to be atomic. If there is such a thing as human dignity, my ultimate end must be left to me. My arms are mine. My legs are mine. My life is mine. If I don't have my body, I don't have anything.

_delirium 14y ago

> Nobody should ever take their own life I guess I personally disagree with this, at least for my own personal utility function. I would prefer suicide over a lengthy prison term, and I think that's the rational choice, at least with the inhumane conditions in American prisons. And you have to make that decision before sentencing, unfortunately, because courts often order suicide watches around the time of sentencing, precisely because many people share that preference. I agree with you in cases where you have an option of continuing to live as a free man, however. In those cases seeming dead ends are usually irrational, borne of depressive pessimism. And treatment can make the situation improve and make it clear that there are ways out. But a lengthy prison term is an actual dead end, and treatment can't produce ways out of it. When someone kills themselves to avoid torture, it's the fault of the torturer.

gavinlynch 14y ago
I think this is a dangerous thought and I'm sorry you feel that way.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- tejaswiy 14y ago
  It's a tradeoff. 6 months? Probably manageable. 30 years? No, thank you.
3825 14y ago
>at least with the inhumane conditions in American prisons Should we, as people who are not currently in prison, not try to make prison living conditions better instead? Some things that come to mind are: 1. Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison. 2. Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison for a longer time. 3. We should ensure full physical security for prisoners. I am willing to entertain the idea of making common lunch / shower areas optional. A prisoner ought to have the option to not be in physical proximity of other prisoners if necessary. 4. There should be a way to report bad behavior / torture by other prisoners or by guards. I think the question to ask here is not whether death is better than prison... What can we do to make our prisons better?
- rolux 14y ago
  > Nobody should gain monetarily from someone being sentenced to prison. I agree with your sentiment, but... are you aware of the fact that a large part of the US prison system is run by private corporations that have clear profit motives, and even seek contractually guaranteed occupancy levels? Edit, link: http://annarbor.com/news/opinion/passing-house-bill-will-worsen-already-pressing-civil-rights-issue/ http://annarbor.com/news/opinion/passing-house-bill-will-wor... Money quote: "In 2012, [the Corrections Corporations of America] sent a letter to 'prison officials in 48 states offering to buy prisons from these states in exchange for a 20-year management contract and a guaranteed occupancy rate of 90%.'"
  - 3825 14y ago
    Yes, that was what I was getting at. While we are at it, traffic tickets as a revenue source or actually any fine as a revenue source is potentially bad.
    - gavinlynch 14y ago
      This i can agree with. Not that it's particularly clever, but I've been referring to most of these issues as Cowards Taxes. Because the politicians who need to cover budget potholes are too cowardly to ask the people to increase taxes to cover expenses, and instead use this absurd backdoor tactic under the guise of "safety". Things like red light cameras adhere to the letter but not the spirit of the law, it's unjust and we all know it. Man up. Raise taxes, or cut expenses. You can't have it both ways.
zero_intp 14y ago
Live free or die trying

throwit1979 14y ago

Nobody should ever take their own life With all due respect, sir, this is simply not true. Oftentimes, choosing nonexistence to loss of freedom, prison rape, and in general the hollow, empty existence of a caged animal is NOT an irrational choice.

gadders 14y ago
I've often wondered whether they should let people sentenced to life without possibility of parole the option of voluntary euthanasia. Probably not necessary for the threat of 6 months at Club Fed. Martha Stewart managed five months.

webology 14y ago

I agree with you, it's sad, and I'm disappointed as well. Depression and mental illness are misunderstood and it's a shame no good will come from this. Instead of awareness, it's now a political cause. Yet another reason why I seldom read comments.

vy8vWJlco 14y ago

Just my 2 cents: I certainly wish no one ever felt depressed, so I definitely support prevention. (If someone's depressed: 1, eat well, 2, sleep well, 3, do things you love, even small ones, and 4, don't isolate yourself!) At the same time, the right to choose how to use your body has to be atomic. If there is such a thing as human dignity, my ultimate end must be left to me. My arms are mine. My legs are mine. My life is mine. If I don't have my body, I don't have anything.