4 ms·

If that happens, all someone needs to do is repackage Debian's version of aptitude for Ubuntu. Or an older version from Ubuntu. Really, this is a non-issue on

by dkuntz2 14y ago

If that happens, all someone needs to do is repackage Debian's version of aptitude for Ubuntu. Or an older version from Ubuntu. Really, this is a non-issue on Linux, because either 1) someone will just "fix" it an release their alternative, or 2) everyone will just stop using the offender.

lmm 14y ago
You could've said the same thing about e.g. download.com. Turns out there's such a thing as momentum.
jiggy2011 14y ago
Depends on what type of software you are talking about. For copyright protected proprietary software (which Canonical want people to develop for their OS) there may be legal protections which prevent it from being rebundled outside of torrent sites (which have their own risks). #2 assumes a savvy enough userbase.
- dkuntz2 14y ago
  Legal protections against rebundling aptitude? Something released under the GPL? Which means everyone has all of the ability to easily change the sucker. If you're packaging something as a deb, you can potentially bundle other things, but at the same time, because a deb is a glorified tar.gz, someone can just provide information on how to get rid of the offending thing. Or, if you're using Arch, the AUR maintainer just adjusts the PKGBUILD to do it for you. It's not particularly hard. And sure, having people install a different package manager requires a savvy enough userbase, to an extent. If they can copy and paste a couple commands into the terminal, they can change it (wget [somefile] && dpkg -i [somefile]). How hard.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I don't mean aptitude itself. I mean , if you are bundling your own software for Ubuntu you get to distribute it however you like. If somebody else decides to redistribute it minus the crapware then you can potentially sue them. So you can say "the only legal way to get my software is to download this file which is bundled with InstallMonetizerForUbuntu". Whether it is bundled as a .tar.gz or a .deb and whether it comes from a random website or the Ubuntu software store is largely irrelevant to this point. Sure, people will create programs and instructions on how to get the crapware off your system but this is basically the same state as now exists for Windows with various "cleaner" programs, some of which install even more shit.
    - dkuntz2 14y ago
      I've said nothing about distribution. Only packaging. And specifically giving people instructions on how to do it themselves. Which isn't illegal. Nor is it particularly endorsing something illegal. > So you can say "the only legal way to get my software is to download this file which is bundled with InstallMonetizerForUbuntu". But, once I have that downloaded, I don't have to go straight to installation. I can remove files and change the install script. Sure, you can give me a binary file, but the only binary files I've ever received are after I've paid for something, and I've never found paid software bundled with crapware, even on Windows. I can still write a script that would get rid of the bundled things provided you already have the packaged file, and distribute that script to anyone who wants it. And while yes, people will create decrapifyers, I'm talking about preventative measures (modifying the installer).
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        Well sure, expert users can certainly reverse engineer installer scripts and some intermediate users might be diligent enough to go doing research before they install each program. Not a solution that scales very well though, if it did we wouldn't have the problem we do on Windows at the moment.

by dkuntz2 14y ago

lmm 14y ago

You could've said the same thing about e.g. download.com. Turns out there's such a thing as momentum.

jiggy2011 14y ago

Depends on what type of software you are talking about. For copyright protected proprietary software (which Canonical want people to develop for their OS) there may be legal protections which prevent it from being rebundled outside of torrent sites (which have their own risks). #2 assumes a savvy enough userbase.

dkuntz2 14y ago
Legal protections against rebundling aptitude? Something released under the GPL? Which means everyone has all of the ability to easily change the sucker. If you're packaging something as a deb, you can potentially bundle other things, but at the same time, because a deb is a glorified tar.gz, someone can just provide information on how to get rid of the offending thing. Or, if you're using Arch, the AUR maintainer just adjusts the PKGBUILD to do it for you. It's not particularly hard. And sure, having people install a different package manager requires a savvy enough userbase, to an extent. If they can copy and paste a couple commands into the terminal, they can change it (wget [somefile] && dpkg -i [somefile]). How hard.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I don't mean aptitude itself. I mean , if you are bundling your own software for Ubuntu you get to distribute it however you like. If somebody else decides to redistribute it minus the crapware then you can potentially sue them. So you can say "the only legal way to get my software is to download this file which is bundled with InstallMonetizerForUbuntu". Whether it is bundled as a .tar.gz or a .deb and whether it comes from a random website or the Ubuntu software store is largely irrelevant to this point. Sure, people will create programs and instructions on how to get the crapware off your system but this is basically the same state as now exists for Windows with various "cleaner" programs, some of which install even more shit.
  - dkuntz2 14y ago
    I've said nothing about distribution. Only packaging. And specifically giving people instructions on how to do it themselves. Which isn't illegal. Nor is it particularly endorsing something illegal. > So you can say "the only legal way to get my software is to download this file which is bundled with InstallMonetizerForUbuntu". But, once I have that downloaded, I don't have to go straight to installation. I can remove files and change the install script. Sure, you can give me a binary file, but the only binary files I've ever received are after I've paid for something, and I've never found paid software bundled with crapware, even on Windows. I can still write a script that would get rid of the bundled things provided you already have the packaged file, and distribute that script to anyone who wants it. And while yes, people will create decrapifyers, I'm talking about preventative measures (modifying the installer).
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Well sure, expert users can certainly reverse engineer installer scripts and some intermediate users might be diligent enough to go doing research before they install each program. Not a solution that scales very well though, if it did we wouldn't have the problem we do on Windows at the moment.