3 ms·

There are three very dangerous tools that US prosecutors have available to them that are uncommon in the rest of the world: * the plea bargain * RICO ('conspi

by nikcub 14y ago

There are three very dangerous tools that US prosecutors have available to them that are uncommon in the rest of the world: * the plea bargain * RICO ('conspiracy' charges) * FISA warrants + probable cause combined you could almost charge anybody with anything to make them appear guilty and plead down to shorter sentences. Read the indictments of Swartz, FullTiltPoker, Gary McKinnon, Megaupload, Lakhani, etc.

rdl 14y ago
The only reason RICO hasn't caused huge public outcry is that most of the victims are "bad people" -- John Gotti, other gangsters, etc. It's a sad fact of law that judges convict bad people on bad laws. FISA has also mainly been used against "bad people" so far. It's really hard to defend a likely terrorist in the court of public opinion. I'm not sure how many of these need to be in the toolbox to outmatch any defendant (including the innocent or substantially innocent) -- plea bargains seem adequate on their own in some cases, since as we saw with aaronsw, you can credibly threaten huge punishments even without RICO. But with RICO, you don't even need to go to the plea bargains.
- bane 14y ago
  RICO also has a substantial civil portion. See the Palantir vs. I2 lawsuit.
  - rdl 14y ago
    I'd forgotten about that. Big company vs. big company is rarely going to get public outcry either, though (the Samsung v. Apple patent stuff was about the closest I've ever seen)
- btilly 14y ago
  FISA has also mainly been used against "bad people" so far. Evidence? We hear about cases where the prosecutors decided that someone was bad and proceeded. However it would "violate our privacy" for us even to be TOLD how many of us are under surveillance. Our general awareness of how often it is misused is not evidence that it is not misused on a regular basis. And in general the best presumption is that anywhere where you have authority combined with dark spaces, there are cockroaches breeding.

by nikcub 14y ago

rdl 14y ago

The only reason RICO hasn't caused huge public outcry is that most of the victims are "bad people" -- John Gotti, other gangsters, etc. It's a sad fact of law that judges convict bad people on bad laws. FISA has also mainly been used against "bad people" so far. It's really hard to defend a likely terrorist in the court of public opinion. I'm not sure how many of these need to be in the toolbox to outmatch any defendant (including the innocent or substantially innocent) -- plea bargains seem adequate on their own in some cases, since as we saw with aaronsw, you can credibly threaten huge punishments even without RICO. But with RICO, you don't even need to go to the plea bargains.

bane 14y ago
RICO also has a substantial civil portion. See the Palantir vs. I2 lawsuit.
- rdl 14y ago
  I'd forgotten about that. Big company vs. big company is rarely going to get public outcry either, though (the Samsung v. Apple patent stuff was about the closest I've ever seen)
btilly 14y ago
FISA has also mainly been used against "bad people" so far. Evidence? We hear about cases where the prosecutors decided that someone was bad and proceeded. However it would "violate our privacy" for us even to be TOLD how many of us are under surveillance. Our general awareness of how often it is misused is not evidence that it is not misused on a regular basis. And in general the best presumption is that anywhere where you have authority combined with dark spaces, there are cockroaches breeding.