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I think the biggest complaint from men in divorces is not that they get screwed economically, but that the courts are heavily biased towards giving the mother t

by benaiah 14y ago

I think the biggest complaint from men in divorces is not that they get screwed economically, but that the courts are heavily biased towards giving the mother the children. Sometimes "standard of living" isn't the most important factor in play - otherwise custody cases would be two parents trying to make the other one take the kids, instead of the other way around. I haven't done the research to make the argument that their complaints are true, (though I think it is), but you are somewhat misrepresenting the complaint. I've never been married, divorced, or had children, so if I am missing something obvious, please let me know.

btilly 14y ago
Statistics that I've heard on that one. A significant majority of the time, children go with the mother. In a significant majority of cases where fathers contest custody, children go with the father. This is at least in part because the father usually has better finances, so can make a persuasive case that he'd be in a better position to be a caregiver. That said, it is very common for men to threaten a custody dispute then back down with some other concessions. It is difficult to tell how often this is because he didn't think he'd win, or preferred the concession. My source on this is the same book. Disclaimer, I've been married over 20 years, 2 kids, never divorced.
- bostonpete 14y ago
  > In a significant majority of cases where fathers > contest custody, children go with the father. I have a fair amount of familiarity with family law (not a lawyer though) and I have to say this is hard to fathom. To my knowledge fathers have to basically prove gross negligence or substance abuse or other criminal activity by the mother in order to stand a chance of winning physical custody. It is generally presumed that kids are better off with the mother and any father seeking custody needs to prove otherwise. Having better finances usually doesn't factor into the decision AFAIK -- if the father has better finances to support the child, he can do so with child support.
  - btilly 14y ago
    I was quoting from a book that I read 8 years and 2 moves ago. But the best that Google turned up is the very dated http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias... that found that when fathers choose to contest custody, 70% of the time they win sole or joint custody. I have found elsewhere a claim that usually this is joint, so women are still coming out better. This seems believable, but that claim was not sourced. Several places I found the claim that women receive sole custody about 70% of the time, joint custody 20% and men get sole custody a bit under 10%. But also the majority of custody cases are not settled by a judge, so that proportion does not speak to what happens when a judge makes the choice. So I should put a question mark next to the specific claim that men who contest, have a good chance of getting custody. Because I don't have good sources to back it up.
  - csense 14y ago
    You could both be right. Perhaps fathers, being usually the better-off partner financially, often get lawyers when it comes to something as important as custody for their children. And perhaps those lawyers usually tell the father they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting custody unless they can prove the mother's unfit, and the father usually decides not to contest custody to save everyone's time and money, unless the mother actually is unfit and thus the father has a very good chance of winning. Result: Usually the children go with the mother. But when custody is contested, it's often because the father has a strong case, and so fathers usually win contested cases.

by benaiah 14y ago

btilly 14y ago

Statistics that I've heard on that one. A significant majority of the time, children go with the mother. In a significant majority of cases where fathers contest custody, children go with the father. This is at least in part because the father usually has better finances, so can make a persuasive case that he'd be in a better position to be a caregiver. That said, it is very common for men to threaten a custody dispute then back down with some other concessions. It is difficult to tell how often this is because he didn't think he'd win, or preferred the concession. My source on this is the same book. Disclaimer, I've been married over 20 years, 2 kids, never divorced.

bostonpete 14y ago
> In a significant majority of cases where fathers > contest custody, children go with the father. I have a fair amount of familiarity with family law (not a lawyer though) and I have to say this is hard to fathom. To my knowledge fathers have to basically prove gross negligence or substance abuse or other criminal activity by the mother in order to stand a chance of winning physical custody. It is generally presumed that kids are better off with the mother and any father seeking custody needs to prove otherwise. Having better finances usually doesn't factor into the decision AFAIK -- if the father has better finances to support the child, he can do so with child support.
- btilly 14y ago
  I was quoting from a book that I read 8 years and 2 moves ago. But the best that Google turned up is the very dated http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias... that found that when fathers choose to contest custody, 70% of the time they win sole or joint custody. I have found elsewhere a claim that usually this is joint, so women are still coming out better. This seems believable, but that claim was not sourced. Several places I found the claim that women receive sole custody about 70% of the time, joint custody 20% and men get sole custody a bit under 10%. But also the majority of custody cases are not settled by a judge, so that proportion does not speak to what happens when a judge makes the choice. So I should put a question mark next to the specific claim that men who contest, have a good chance of getting custody. Because I don't have good sources to back it up.
- csense 14y ago
  You could both be right. Perhaps fathers, being usually the better-off partner financially, often get lawyers when it comes to something as important as custody for their children. And perhaps those lawyers usually tell the father they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting custody unless they can prove the mother's unfit, and the father usually decides not to contest custody to save everyone's time and money, unless the mother actually is unfit and thus the father has a very good chance of winning. Result: Usually the children go with the mother. But when custody is contested, it's often because the father has a strong case, and so fathers usually win contested cases.