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I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

by edw519 14y ago

jacquesm 14y ago
Thanks Ed.
segfault1988 14y ago
Dude, stop acting and shut the fuck up. What you said amounts to cyber bullying and it's idiots like you who are setting the spiteful tone in HN comments. So much hate. No matter what other comments here say, you are in a way responsible for his death.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- gadders 14y ago
  Utter bollocks. His comments were robust, but one comment does not make cyber-bullying. Is your comment cyber-bullying as well, by that standard? //edit//ffs, I delete one dupe and the other gets flagged as dead.
- chernevik 14y ago
  Utter and complete nonsense. Someone offers a thoughtful and considered opinion, and that's "cyberbullying"? Disagreeing with an opinion you hold, no matter how intelligently and reasonably, is "cyberbullying"? Your post could have just stopped at "shut the fuck up". Because that's the essential gist of everything that followed.
  - spinlocked 14y ago
    I believe he was referring to the top voted post from 4 months ago. We, as a community, did not come around for one of us, instead some of you bashed the guy when he was down, now he's dead. Shame. Edit: ameliorated ending
    - thaumaturgy 14y ago
      You've been here long enough to know better than to end a comment that way. edit: Thank you for editing your comment. :-)
    - fakeer 14y ago
      >>some of you bashed the guy when he was down, now he's dead. Shame. Also, fuck you.>> I resent the last two words but it couldn't have been anything else or anything better. Yes, you cognoscenti, you know everything and you are talking about everything. It's not just that people bashed him when he was down; they are doing the same thing they do good on HN - comment on anything, disagree with everything and then stick around to prove why you were right and that you were right even though what you said was bs and full of crap. Who knows, Aaron might have read such comments and that could have added to his hopelessness, or maybe he didn't. No, of course not such a commenter was guilty of aiding his suicide(neither legally or just generally), but then again just look at you. I mean, really? I come across such commenters with five figure karmas on HN. They sometimes put across a counter-argument because that is technically correct and hence disregard what was said originally and on other occasions they put it because they are practically correct and disregard other's statement anyway. It's always that "oh, I am one notch up now". And yes, everybody loves them - they are the pillars of truth on HN. They never own up to what they did or say, they just go on around arguing and arguing and arguing. They take care of their own and jump in when one of their elk needs some assistance. Very few ever dares(or maybe bothers) to cross them. They are simply correct by definition and design. The elders, maybe. What would I know, I am not one of them. But that's just fine, isn't it?
  - davorak 14y ago
    edw519 comment 119 days ago on TC, does not present an argument for why it is better if Arron pays his own bills vs society helping pay his bills. >Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills. This comes across as edw519 saying "Aaron should" do what I think is right. Edw519 may have a deep and well reasons argument for why society would be better if it followed his opinion in the comment, but that argument is not in that comment. It would have be more valuable comment in my opinion if had included such a argument Stating your opinion with out giving a well reasoned argument is by no means cyberbullying, but they do share some signals and indicators.
- unreal37 14y ago
  Cyber bullying? You created an account here just to leave this spiteful disgusting comment? Classic bully behavior - not putting your real identity behind your hateful words.
- aeturnum 14y ago
  Whatever you think of edw, you should also consider the tone of your own comments. HN can be hard and reductionist, and in your attempt to highlight the problematic nature of the trend you've contributed to it. We're a community where people come for insight and honest evaluations. However, those things do not have to be rude or dismissive, and we should all try to raise the tone of the conversation - especially when making uncomfortable statements.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  irony much?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
djt 14y ago
I'll be honest, I thought the same thing as Ed originally. It's a tragic story and I'm sure there is much to learn but let the family grieve rather than make click bait and throw people to the wolves ( ironically what this article is commenting on)
- fermule 14y ago
  Some people deserve to be thrown to the wolves.
- davorak 14y ago
  How should people who though like you and ed act differently now? Aaron did not receive enough help on his defense bills. This likely part of the reason he is now dead, but only part of it. Given this how should actions change, if at all? If you think the world would be better if people that held similar opinions to you ed's were slightly different, how should they be different and what argument would have moved you in that direction earlier?
  - salemh 14y ago
    Remembering the earlier thread through the fog of memory, I assumed he had the funds to pay it himself, and that was cause of much derision, ala "why is he asking for help? He's rich!" and things of that nature.
    - djt 14y ago
      yeah that was my thought. Its hard because it is very difficult for our brains to realise the concept that Reddit was profitable but no-where near as profitable as companies that we've never heard about.
  - djt 14y ago
    < How should people who though like you and ed act differently now? If his opinions have changed then he is free to express that. People say and do things relying on the information they have at that time. I didn't write anything because it was just a gut thought, which is why I didn't donate. I'm sure that if Aaron had told his side of the story then it would have hurt him in court, but it may have garnered him public interest and funds. For his immense abilities, Aaron made a lot of enemies due to his confrontational behaviour. This seems to be getting glossed over at the moment and having a close network of people may have been able to save him. <Aaron did not receive enough help on his defense bills. This likely part of the reason he is now dead, but only part of it. Definitely part of the reason, but he also had massive depression issues and talked and wrote about suicide long before. <Given this how should actions change, if at all? If you think the world would be better if people that held similar opinions to you ed's were slightly different, how should they be different and what argument would have moved you in that direction earlier? I had an opinion but didn't take action because it was negative and of no use. I had no idea about him other than he was a Reddit co-founder that I hadn't heard of before, that he made a bit of money, that he had broken the law and that someone was asking for money for his defense. I don't think the world is a better place for having held those views, it is what it is. I would say what would have changed my mind was either Aaron or his friends arguing his case in public. All the people he worked with are now vocal about how great he is, but where were they back then? For one example: Reddit could have created a funding drive but didn't as far as I can tell. Do I blame them? No. At the end of the day it is really sad. Nothing will change that. Witch hunts only create a quick fix to our need to rationalise our anger and pain. Ed wrote a criticism that could equally have been written by Aaron, I'm sure the regret he feels now is far worse than anything you can say.
spinlocked 14y ago
We are all partially responsible in a small way. We did not take a stand when that link was posted. Each one of us who did not donate or pass that link around. Maybe we were swayed by the comments, maybe not. Call ourselves hackers, get influenced by some prick who sounds like an uppity high school headmaster. Think we're principled, refuse to take a stand for what's right. At the very least, we can learn. To take a stand in what we believe in. Without getting swayed by the fakers.
davemel37 14y ago
I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I am more taken aback by the overall tone implying that Aaron had some golden-ticket-chance-of-a-lifetime...In hindsight, I don't think anyone would have wanted to shoulder his burdens. I don't think anyone would still say he had a golden ticket. Probably the greatest lesson in empathy I learned is, "Breaking a child's lego ship causes the same pain as sinking an adults real ship." Your actions and words leave an impression on others. That is a responsibility we too often neglect. Happiness and meaning can only come form within by definition. Looking at others, judging others, being jealous of others are all ways to deflect our own true feelings. what a shame because feeling our own pain is the only way to truly feel anothers. Look at all the great people who lived on this Earth, Like Aaron Swartz, the selfless ones who put everyone ahead of them, and examine their lives and you will see DEEP DEEP PAIN. It is a difficult reality to accept, but to truly put others ahead of yourself as Aaron did, you must know what it feels like to be persecuted. If there is one lesson to take out of this story it is to learn to look within yourself and find happiness and recognize that you have it pretty great, in fact you have it perfect. Perfect for you. Don't be so quick to be jealous of others, Dont be so quick to wonder why they get away with everything or why their life is so much better than yours. Look Within, and Truly Become Happy With Your Lot.
- spinlocked 14y ago
  You look within. We all need to "man up". Hackers vs. Wankers.
- fermule 14y ago
  I am taken back by how much people are defending Ed. The man has ego issues, clearly. Who berates a person for asking for help any person. It is beyond rude.
- davorak 14y ago
  > I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I think it only becomes reasonable after you present a well thought though argument for why the world is better off when Aaron pays for his own bills vs volunteers helping him with is bills. Until that it is just a statement and opinion.
fermule 14y ago
How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519
- thaumaturgy 14y ago
  Either you are new here, in which case you don't know Ed well enough to be leaving comments like this one, or you are a troll, or you are a regular member hiding behind a newly-created anonymous account. Either way, stop it.
  - thosegivenmuch 14y ago
    well this is a newly created account, but I've been here for four years. I remember when people were missing comments by nicb, when patio11 wasn't a lead karma recipient. Ed fucked up man. And as I've said it now in three other comments, this guy sold a freaking book of his comments from this exact site. I've been an asshole. I've said things I really, really shouldn't have. But the people calling for Ed to publicly apologize have the least of it. And for the record, I'm not a regular contributor hiding behind a new account. I've commented less than a dozen times before the last few days, from two other accounts that I promptly forgot. Just because we don't have high karma doesn't mean we don't have relevant opinions and arguing the opposite sounds pretty shameful.
    - thaumaturgy 14y ago
      1. Ed did not "fuck up". He posted his opinion. I don't -- and didn't -- agree with it, but that does not make him a bad person. And, by the way, you are right now committing the exact same sin as you are accusing him of, which makes you a hypocrite to boot. If there is any discussion worth having here, it is not about that specific comment, it is about the tone and personality of this site. 2. He sold a book of things that people found insightful. So what? I have a collection of Robert Fulghum's short works, what's the difference really? 3. You're being an asshole right now. 4. The people calling for Ed to publicly apologize are misguided, at best. The only reason that they are even aware of that comment is because it ended up on TechCrunch, and how many of those people are, themselves, guilty of the accusations that they would levy against another respected member here? Once again, the only productive thing that could come from all of this colossal stupidity would be for HN to collectively reconsider its tone and personality. 5. Part of the etiquette here is that if you are going to accuse someone of wrongdoing, you bloody well ought to at least put your name behind it. Whether you agree with that or not, those are the rules here. Using anonymous accounts to spew hatred towards other people is cowardly, at best. 6. My reply to fermule had nothing to do with his internet points, and everything to do with the fact that his comments are so stupid, so inciteful, that either they are the work of a troll or of a member that should know better, or someone from somewhere else on the internet that doesn't know better. What I find most abhorrent about HN at this moment is that fermule's comments currently have a net positive score, despite being almost perfectly identical to the kind of garbage that you'd expect to find on Reddit.
mcantelon 14y ago
>Can we please just let the family grieve? You can also "man up" and admit you might have been wrong to characterize a hacker, however successful, asking for financial help in the face of a very serious legal battle as "seriously wrong". No shame in that. Or, alternatively, you can "man up" and own your original opinion.
- niggler 14y ago
  This is HN. I don't think edw519 or any of the critics back then would change their mind as a result of the suicide, not because they don't care but because reacting to the suicide would be an emotional reaction and the critics made their opinions based on an unchanged set of facts. It's clear even back then that the core facts were known.
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    >It's clear even back then that the core facts were known. The "core facts", about whether or not it would be "seriously wrong" for Swarz to ask the community for financial assistance, would be knowledge of Swarz's financials. Was edw519 privy to this information? Probably not.
    - niggler 14y ago
      From Lessig's response it sounded like the information was common knowledge ...
      - mcantelon 14y ago
        Ah... so edw519 knew Aaron was worried about being financially able to see his case through, but thought he should "man up" and be financially decimated (or financially unable due to frozen assets). Makes sense.
        niggler 14y ago
        You are merely pointing to the fact that some people shouldn't opine until they bother to look into the facts. Having a half-understanding about what's going on and making a proclamation always seemed foolhardy to me ...
hugi 14y ago
You should have "manned up" and stood by your own words. But you seem to have deleted everything you said about Aaron.
- pygy_ 14y ago
  > But you seem to have deleted everything you said about Aaron. Uh? It's right here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484
sethbc 14y ago
I never post and I never comment, but I had to login to say something. HN needs to "man up" and accept that the majority of the attitudes in the original post are exactly why things ended the way they did. People bitching about the styling of payment buttons? Telling someone to "man up" or exclaiming (with plenty of IANAL disclaimers) that no one would get jail time for something like this is typical for your average HN discussion thread. This thread (and the subject of this thread) is exactly what I've come to expect from HN - a bunch of (mostly) know-it-all hyper-competitive hyper-critical 20-something assholes trying to backstab or one-up each other to the top. And Ed, "Not here, and not now" is such a cop-out I'm not even sure how to react to it. Own your shit. Edit: Said differently, with friends (or family) like these, who needs enemies.
- MrScruff 14y ago
  HN needs to "man up" and accept that the majority of the attitudes in the original post are exactly why things ended the way they did. What exactly do you mean by this?
  - mindslight 14y ago
    I think it's some sort of postmodern Gödel sentence formally demonstrating the inability of brogrammer culture to reason about anything.
  - pygy_ 14y ago
    He details it further in his message.
znowi 14y ago
Oh, he's suddenly so thoughtful and considerate. I think edw519 is a common example of a celebrity case who feels obliged to condescend his important opinion on any mildly prominent case, in a know-it-all, bold manner. And there's no lack of readily available supporters willing to nod and upvote their idol. I have respect for his technical background, but with fame comes a greater responsibility, which not many carry out well.
- herbart 14y ago
  edw519 is one of those people who thinks it is his duty to order everyone around. Unfortunately, this kind of anal character gets a lot of upvotes on HN.
jonmc12 14y ago
To all those replying to edw519 - please stop witch-hunting. First prosecutor, then MIT, then.. edw519? Its possible any of these parties made a mistake.. now that they can look back and reflect. But, even after reflection its very possible that each party made the best decision they could with the information at hand. Maybe I'm lucky, but I find 99%+ of people I meet in this world are well intentioned, and if I invest the empathy cycles I almost always can see their point of view and understand why they made the decision that they did. Does your sympathy towards aaronsw merit that you throw empathy out the window? No. Do you actually understand the complex set of events that occurred and how these events relate to one another and the rest of the world? No. Surely, a solution to prevent such a terrible scenario from re-occuring is far removed from personal attacks: - if you don't like how district attorney works - get moving on changing the law - don't think prosecutor did their job? point out their job description vs their actions to the proper authority - don't like how MIT managed case? reach out to the MIT beaurocracy and work with them to improve their process - don't like edw519 *most upvoted* post on the Sept article? suggest policy changes that could prevent such a comment from appearing on HN - etc When you start with the point of view that we are all reasonable, and well intentioned.. the problem then becomes about process and culture, and you can actually start making progress.
- sethbc 14y ago
  > - don't like edw519 most upvoted post on the Sept article? suggest policy changes that could prevent such a comment from appearing on HN Let's just eliminate the ability to vote on comments. Seems reasonable. Or pg could shut down the site. Then Ed couldn't make the comment in the first place, right? Maybe Ed still thinks he was right and he feels compelled to backpedal because in hindsight his comments seem insensitive. Or maybe your 99%+ statistic is wrong and wisdom of the crowds isn't all it's cracked up to be. If anything, the juxtaposition between this thread and the original thread shows the hypocrisy endemic to crowd driven discussion.
- noahc 14y ago
  To add to this, it might be useful to add why Ed was wrong. He wasn't wrong because he lacked empathy or because he was looking to be a bully. He was wrong because his mental model of how federal cases work was wrong. He, much like my self, probably assumed that someone with millions of dollars could fund the litigation of a federal case, however, the nature of these prosecutions tend to freeze assets, alienate friends and business partners who could help fund a defense and generally make it impossible for justice to be done. I would have been wrong about this too. We all get stuff wrong from time to time, and to be honest, I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. However, I firmly believe edw519's comments come from a place of experience, love, and support even if it might not be what we always want to hear. My hope is that my comments when based in love and charity would not be subject to similar comments that edw519's comments have been. It's okay to disagree and edw519 might even disagree in someways with what he wrote.
roguecoder 14y ago
We are not "family". We are the people who called him Paris Hilton and told him to man up. We are the people who consistently criticized him just because he was well known. We told him to shut up about ethics and get back to coding. We told him he wasn't any good at coding, either. We didn't treat him as badly as we could have, as we've treated some other people, but I think trying to recast ourselves as "family" is incredibly disrespectful of his actual family who lost their child.
- blader 14y ago
  Just - thank you.
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  Never quit being this person.
- mistermann 14y ago
  I agree. The hypocrisy on this topic has been truly something to behold. So many people calling for prosecutors to explain themselves, but whenever a question is asked of a local, it is "time to grieve, not ask questions."

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

by edw519 14y ago

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

jacquesm 14y ago

Thanks Ed.

segfault1988 14y ago

Dude, stop acting and shut the fuck up. What you said amounts to cyber bullying and it's idiots like you who are setting the spiteful tone in HN comments. So much hate. No matter what other comments here say, you are in a way responsible for his death.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gadders 14y ago
Utter bollocks. His comments were robust, but one comment does not make cyber-bullying. Is your comment cyber-bullying as well, by that standard? //edit//ffs, I delete one dupe and the other gets flagged as dead.
chernevik 14y ago
Utter and complete nonsense. Someone offers a thoughtful and considered opinion, and that's "cyberbullying"? Disagreeing with an opinion you hold, no matter how intelligently and reasonably, is "cyberbullying"? Your post could have just stopped at "shut the fuck up". Because that's the essential gist of everything that followed.
- spinlocked 14y ago
  I believe he was referring to the top voted post from 4 months ago. We, as a community, did not come around for one of us, instead some of you bashed the guy when he was down, now he's dead. Shame. Edit: ameliorated ending
  - thaumaturgy 14y ago
    You've been here long enough to know better than to end a comment that way. edit: Thank you for editing your comment. :-)
  - fakeer 14y ago
    >>some of you bashed the guy when he was down, now he's dead. Shame. Also, fuck you.>> I resent the last two words but it couldn't have been anything else or anything better. Yes, you cognoscenti, you know everything and you are talking about everything. It's not just that people bashed him when he was down; they are doing the same thing they do good on HN - comment on anything, disagree with everything and then stick around to prove why you were right and that you were right even though what you said was bs and full of crap. Who knows, Aaron might have read such comments and that could have added to his hopelessness, or maybe he didn't. No, of course not such a commenter was guilty of aiding his suicide(neither legally or just generally), but then again just look at you. I mean, really? I come across such commenters with five figure karmas on HN. They sometimes put across a counter-argument because that is technically correct and hence disregard what was said originally and on other occasions they put it because they are practically correct and disregard other's statement anyway. It's always that "oh, I am one notch up now". And yes, everybody loves them - they are the pillars of truth on HN. They never own up to what they did or say, they just go on around arguing and arguing and arguing. They take care of their own and jump in when one of their elk needs some assistance. Very few ever dares(or maybe bothers) to cross them. They are simply correct by definition and design. The elders, maybe. What would I know, I am not one of them. But that's just fine, isn't it?
- davorak 14y ago
  edw519 comment 119 days ago on TC, does not present an argument for why it is better if Arron pays his own bills vs society helping pay his bills. >Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills. This comes across as edw519 saying "Aaron should" do what I think is right. Edw519 may have a deep and well reasons argument for why society would be better if it followed his opinion in the comment, but that argument is not in that comment. It would have be more valuable comment in my opinion if had included such a argument Stating your opinion with out giving a well reasoned argument is by no means cyberbullying, but they do share some signals and indicators.
unreal37 14y ago
Cyber bullying? You created an account here just to leave this spiteful disgusting comment? Classic bully behavior - not putting your real identity behind your hateful words.
aeturnum 14y ago
Whatever you think of edw, you should also consider the tone of your own comments. HN can be hard and reductionist, and in your attempt to highlight the problematic nature of the trend you've contributed to it. We're a community where people come for insight and honest evaluations. However, those things do not have to be rude or dismissive, and we should all try to raise the tone of the conversation - especially when making uncomfortable statements.
anthonyb 14y ago
irony much?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

djt 14y ago

I'll be honest, I thought the same thing as Ed originally. It's a tragic story and I'm sure there is much to learn but let the family grieve rather than make click bait and throw people to the wolves ( ironically what this article is commenting on)

fermule 14y ago
Some people deserve to be thrown to the wolves.
davorak 14y ago
How should people who though like you and ed act differently now? Aaron did not receive enough help on his defense bills. This likely part of the reason he is now dead, but only part of it. Given this how should actions change, if at all? If you think the world would be better if people that held similar opinions to you ed's were slightly different, how should they be different and what argument would have moved you in that direction earlier?
- salemh 14y ago
  Remembering the earlier thread through the fog of memory, I assumed he had the funds to pay it himself, and that was cause of much derision, ala "why is he asking for help? He's rich!" and things of that nature.
  - djt 14y ago
    yeah that was my thought. Its hard because it is very difficult for our brains to realise the concept that Reddit was profitable but no-where near as profitable as companies that we've never heard about.
- djt 14y ago
  < How should people who though like you and ed act differently now? If his opinions have changed then he is free to express that. People say and do things relying on the information they have at that time. I didn't write anything because it was just a gut thought, which is why I didn't donate. I'm sure that if Aaron had told his side of the story then it would have hurt him in court, but it may have garnered him public interest and funds. For his immense abilities, Aaron made a lot of enemies due to his confrontational behaviour. This seems to be getting glossed over at the moment and having a close network of people may have been able to save him. <Aaron did not receive enough help on his defense bills. This likely part of the reason he is now dead, but only part of it. Definitely part of the reason, but he also had massive depression issues and talked and wrote about suicide long before. <Given this how should actions change, if at all? If you think the world would be better if people that held similar opinions to you ed's were slightly different, how should they be different and what argument would have moved you in that direction earlier? I had an opinion but didn't take action because it was negative and of no use. I had no idea about him other than he was a Reddit co-founder that I hadn't heard of before, that he made a bit of money, that he had broken the law and that someone was asking for money for his defense. I don't think the world is a better place for having held those views, it is what it is. I would say what would have changed my mind was either Aaron or his friends arguing his case in public. All the people he worked with are now vocal about how great he is, but where were they back then? For one example: Reddit could have created a funding drive but didn't as far as I can tell. Do I blame them? No. At the end of the day it is really sad. Nothing will change that. Witch hunts only create a quick fix to our need to rationalise our anger and pain. Ed wrote a criticism that could equally have been written by Aaron, I'm sure the regret he feels now is far worse than anything you can say.

spinlocked 14y ago

We are all partially responsible in a small way. We did not take a stand when that link was posted. Each one of us who did not donate or pass that link around. Maybe we were swayed by the comments, maybe not. Call ourselves hackers, get influenced by some prick who sounds like an uppity high school headmaster. Think we're principled, refuse to take a stand for what's right. At the very least, we can learn. To take a stand in what we believe in. Without getting swayed by the fakers.

davemel37 14y ago

I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I am more taken aback by the overall tone implying that Aaron had some golden-ticket-chance-of-a-lifetime...In hindsight, I don't think anyone would have wanted to shoulder his burdens. I don't think anyone would still say he had a golden ticket. Probably the greatest lesson in empathy I learned is, "Breaking a child's lego ship causes the same pain as sinking an adults real ship." Your actions and words leave an impression on others. That is a responsibility we too often neglect. Happiness and meaning can only come form within by definition. Looking at others, judging others, being jealous of others are all ways to deflect our own true feelings. what a shame because feeling our own pain is the only way to truly feel anothers. Look at all the great people who lived on this Earth, Like Aaron Swartz, the selfless ones who put everyone ahead of them, and examine their lives and you will see DEEP DEEP PAIN. It is a difficult reality to accept, but to truly put others ahead of yourself as Aaron did, you must know what it feels like to be persecuted. If there is one lesson to take out of this story it is to learn to look within yourself and find happiness and recognize that you have it pretty great, in fact you have it perfect. Perfect for you. Don't be so quick to be jealous of others, Dont be so quick to wonder why they get away with everything or why their life is so much better than yours. Look Within, and Truly Become Happy With Your Lot.

spinlocked 14y ago
You look within. We all need to "man up". Hackers vs. Wankers.
fermule 14y ago
I am taken back by how much people are defending Ed. The man has ego issues, clearly. Who berates a person for asking for help any person. It is beyond rude.
davorak 14y ago
> I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I think it only becomes reasonable after you present a well thought though argument for why the world is better off when Aaron pays for his own bills vs volunteers helping him with is bills. Until that it is just a statement and opinion.

fermule 14y ago

How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519

thaumaturgy 14y ago
Either you are new here, in which case you don't know Ed well enough to be leaving comments like this one, or you are a troll, or you are a regular member hiding behind a newly-created anonymous account. Either way, stop it.
- thosegivenmuch 14y ago
  well this is a newly created account, but I've been here for four years. I remember when people were missing comments by nicb, when patio11 wasn't a lead karma recipient. Ed fucked up man. And as I've said it now in three other comments, this guy sold a freaking book of his comments from this exact site. I've been an asshole. I've said things I really, really shouldn't have. But the people calling for Ed to publicly apologize have the least of it. And for the record, I'm not a regular contributor hiding behind a new account. I've commented less than a dozen times before the last few days, from two other accounts that I promptly forgot. Just because we don't have high karma doesn't mean we don't have relevant opinions and arguing the opposite sounds pretty shameful.
  - thaumaturgy 14y ago
    1. Ed did not "fuck up". He posted his opinion. I don't -- and didn't -- agree with it, but that does not make him a bad person. And, by the way, you are right now committing the exact same sin as you are accusing him of, which makes you a hypocrite to boot. If there is any discussion worth having here, it is not about that specific comment, it is about the tone and personality of this site. 2. He sold a book of things that people found insightful. So what? I have a collection of Robert Fulghum's short works, what's the difference really? 3. You're being an asshole right now. 4. The people calling for Ed to publicly apologize are misguided, at best. The only reason that they are even aware of that comment is because it ended up on TechCrunch, and how many of those people are, themselves, guilty of the accusations that they would levy against another respected member here? Once again, the only productive thing that could come from all of this colossal stupidity would be for HN to collectively reconsider its tone and personality. 5. Part of the etiquette here is that if you are going to accuse someone of wrongdoing, you bloody well ought to at least put your name behind it. Whether you agree with that or not, those are the rules here. Using anonymous accounts to spew hatred towards other people is cowardly, at best. 6. My reply to fermule had nothing to do with his internet points, and everything to do with the fact that his comments are so stupid, so inciteful, that either they are the work of a troll or of a member that should know better, or someone from somewhere else on the internet that doesn't know better. What I find most abhorrent about HN at this moment is that fermule's comments currently have a net positive score, despite being almost perfectly identical to the kind of garbage that you'd expect to find on Reddit.

mcantelon 14y ago

>Can we please just let the family grieve? You can also "man up" and admit you might have been wrong to characterize a hacker, however successful, asking for financial help in the face of a very serious legal battle as "seriously wrong". No shame in that. Or, alternatively, you can "man up" and own your original opinion.

niggler 14y ago
This is HN. I don't think edw519 or any of the critics back then would change their mind as a result of the suicide, not because they don't care but because reacting to the suicide would be an emotional reaction and the critics made their opinions based on an unchanged set of facts. It's clear even back then that the core facts were known.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  >It's clear even back then that the core facts were known. The "core facts", about whether or not it would be "seriously wrong" for Swarz to ask the community for financial assistance, would be knowledge of Swarz's financials. Was edw519 privy to this information? Probably not.
  - niggler 14y ago
    From Lessig's response it sounded like the information was common knowledge ...
    - mcantelon 14y ago
      Ah... so edw519 knew Aaron was worried about being financially able to see his case through, but thought he should "man up" and be financially decimated (or financially unable due to frozen assets). Makes sense.
      - niggler 14y ago
        You are merely pointing to the fact that some people shouldn't opine until they bother to look into the facts. Having a half-understanding about what's going on and making a proclamation always seemed foolhardy to me ...

hugi 14y ago

You should have "manned up" and stood by your own words. But you seem to have deleted everything you said about Aaron.

pygy_ 14y ago
> But you seem to have deleted everything you said about Aaron. Uh? It's right here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

sethbc 14y ago

I never post and I never comment, but I had to login to say something. HN needs to "man up" and accept that the majority of the attitudes in the original post are exactly why things ended the way they did. People bitching about the styling of payment buttons? Telling someone to "man up" or exclaiming (with plenty of IANAL disclaimers) that no one would get jail time for something like this is typical for your average HN discussion thread. This thread (and the subject of this thread) is exactly what I've come to expect from HN - a bunch of (mostly) know-it-all hyper-competitive hyper-critical 20-something assholes trying to backstab or one-up each other to the top. And Ed, "Not here, and not now" is such a cop-out I'm not even sure how to react to it. Own your shit. Edit: Said differently, with friends (or family) like these, who needs enemies.

MrScruff 14y ago
HN needs to "man up" and accept that the majority of the attitudes in the original post are exactly why things ended the way they did. What exactly do you mean by this?
- mindslight 14y ago
  I think it's some sort of postmodern Gödel sentence formally demonstrating the inability of brogrammer culture to reason about anything.
- pygy_ 14y ago
  He details it further in his message.

znowi 14y ago

Oh, he's suddenly so thoughtful and considerate. I think edw519 is a common example of a celebrity case who feels obliged to condescend his important opinion on any mildly prominent case, in a know-it-all, bold manner. And there's no lack of readily available supporters willing to nod and upvote their idol. I have respect for his technical background, but with fame comes a greater responsibility, which not many carry out well.

herbart 14y ago
edw519 is one of those people who thinks it is his duty to order everyone around. Unfortunately, this kind of anal character gets a lot of upvotes on HN.

jonmc12 14y ago

To all those replying to edw519 - please stop witch-hunting. First prosecutor, then MIT, then.. edw519? Its possible any of these parties made a mistake.. now that they can look back and reflect. But, even after reflection its very possible that each party made the best decision they could with the information at hand. Maybe I'm lucky, but I find 99%+ of people I meet in this world are well intentioned, and if I invest the empathy cycles I almost always can see their point of view and understand why they made the decision that they did. Does your sympathy towards aaronsw merit that you throw empathy out the window? No. Do you actually understand the complex set of events that occurred and how these events relate to one another and the rest of the world? No. Surely, a solution to prevent such a terrible scenario from re-occuring is far removed from personal attacks: - if you don't like how district attorney works - get moving on changing the law - don't think prosecutor did their job? point out their job description vs their actions to the proper authority - don't like how MIT managed case? reach out to the MIT beaurocracy and work with them to improve their process - don't like edw519 *most upvoted* post on the Sept article? suggest policy changes that could prevent such a comment from appearing on HN - etc When you start with the point of view that we are all reasonable, and well intentioned.. the problem then becomes about process and culture, and you can actually start making progress.

sethbc 14y ago
> - don't like edw519 most upvoted post on the Sept article? suggest policy changes that could prevent such a comment from appearing on HN Let's just eliminate the ability to vote on comments. Seems reasonable. Or pg could shut down the site. Then Ed couldn't make the comment in the first place, right? Maybe Ed still thinks he was right and he feels compelled to backpedal because in hindsight his comments seem insensitive. Or maybe your 99%+ statistic is wrong and wisdom of the crowds isn't all it's cracked up to be. If anything, the juxtaposition between this thread and the original thread shows the hypocrisy endemic to crowd driven discussion.
noahc 14y ago
To add to this, it might be useful to add why Ed was wrong. He wasn't wrong because he lacked empathy or because he was looking to be a bully. He was wrong because his mental model of how federal cases work was wrong. He, much like my self, probably assumed that someone with millions of dollars could fund the litigation of a federal case, however, the nature of these prosecutions tend to freeze assets, alienate friends and business partners who could help fund a defense and generally make it impossible for justice to be done. I would have been wrong about this too. We all get stuff wrong from time to time, and to be honest, I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. However, I firmly believe edw519's comments come from a place of experience, love, and support even if it might not be what we always want to hear. My hope is that my comments when based in love and charity would not be subject to similar comments that edw519's comments have been. It's okay to disagree and edw519 might even disagree in someways with what he wrote.

roguecoder 14y ago

We are not "family". We are the people who called him Paris Hilton and told him to man up. We are the people who consistently criticized him just because he was well known. We told him to shut up about ethics and get back to coding. We told him he wasn't any good at coding, either. We didn't treat him as badly as we could have, as we've treated some other people, but I think trying to recast ourselves as "family" is incredibly disrespectful of his actual family who lost their child.

blader 14y ago
Just - thank you.
mkr-hn 14y ago
Never quit being this person.
mistermann 14y ago
I agree. The hypocrisy on this topic has been truly something to behold. So many people calling for prosecutors to explain themselves, but whenever a question is asked of a local, it is "time to grieve, not ask questions."