4 ms·

This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. In spite of the way many interest groups are trying to make Aaron's suicide into a symbol, the fact is t

This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. In spite of the way many interest groups are trying to make Aaron's suicide into a symbol, the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else. Unless we have reason to believe otherwise, most of us assume that those whose actions/views we discuss on HN are of normal (average) mental health. So while Aaron's death is jarring, it's the mental illness that is jarring and not the nuanced view expressed by edw519. TC must be hurting for clicks/readership these days. I think that story (sadly the current top story on HN) is a new low.

Mz 14y ago
I attempted suicide at age 17. I am very clear it was due to social and physical factors, not mental illness. I blogged about that yesterday. I doubt you care, but this accusation of "he was merely mentally ill, the way he was being treated by people doesn't matter" is something I think is pure evil and merely an excuse to say "not my problem" and cover your ass.
- grandalf 14y ago
  Not merely mentally ill. Mental health in general should be taken more seriously. Many of our institutional systems (schools, prisons, etc.) are not conducive to habits that promote good mental health. Please be assured I am not dismissive of the importance of it. Also, people can have lapses in their mental health and then recover. There are also most certainly lots of factors that can push people to their limits. I do note that you were not successful in committing suicide, and in the name of discussion I might ask (if it weren't inappropriate to do so) why you were not successful in committing suicide. I have done a few thought experiments about suicide and it seems that some methods routinely fail while others never do. Thanks for sharing your story, and I apologize if my comment came off as insensitive or as an attempt to washy my hands of the key issues. I'm strongly opposed to the kind of stuff that was being done to Aaron fwiw.
  - Mz 14y ago
    I have a genetic disorder. At the time I attempted suicide, I was undiagnosed. In part for that reason, I ended up with severe low blood sugar while also under severe social duress. The short version is that relatives who knew the man I was arguing with had molested me as a child were telling me to "behave" instead of telling him to stfu. The severe low blood sugar interfered with my plans to slash my wrists. Had I been clearer-headed, I likely would have succeeded. I had a scar from an old accident marking exactly where to cut myself to successfully bleed out. Instead, I ended up with a really insignificant flesh wound. You can read the blog post if you want more details. I still find your remarks objectionable. Severe duress often cannot be clearly distinguished from "mental illness". I have seen too many stories where someone was dismissed as paranoid, a drama queen, mentally ill, making shit up, etc where it later turned out their "dramatics" were 100% true.
    - grandalf 14y ago
      Severe duress often cannot be clearly distinguished from "mental illness" I 100% agree with this in terms of its accuracy in describing the symptoms. And I do not think mental illness should be stigmatized any more than other illnesses should be (which is not at all). The key though is that once mental illness occurs, rationality goes out the window. To a large extent causality goes out the window. You can't persuade a clinically depressed person to cheer up using a rational argument, the brain chemistry is going to overrule your rationality. So my intent in my initial comment was to draw a distinction between Aaron's explainable behavior (that which was derived from his rational process) and his unexplainable behavior (that which was derived from his brain chemistry getting out of whack and his conclusion that taking his own life was a good decision). I realize my sentiment ignores the possibility that the suicide was a direct and rational response to the prosecutors' tactics.
      - Mz 14y ago
        Among other things, I think you are seriously underestimating the chronic stress that a "prodigy" typically lives with. I walked away from a national merit scholarship and homeschooled my very gifted but also learning disabled sons. Issues like OCD are incredibly common at very high IQs. So are serious social issues. For an introvert, being a social outcast for being too smart may be merely annoying. For an extrovert, it may amount to torture. I think it unlikely you can convince me personally that his depression was entirely due to wonky brain chemistry. What little I know about his life suggests huge confounding factors, well before he was charged with a crime. Peace. And have an upvote.
DanBC2 14y ago
> the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else. This is simplistic and wrong. Mental illness is a factor in some attempted or completed suicides. But is mental ill health the only factor? No. There are many things that contribute to someone attempting suicide. Significant factors include debt, relationship breakdown, recent release from a MH hospital, previous attempts at suicide, a relative who completed suicide, etc. Many people have mental ill health, and not all of them kill themselves. The difference between the people who try suicide and those who don't is not severity of illness, but severity of other pressures.
- nandemo 14y ago
  grandalf's comment is inaccurate, but it's also a sort of understatement to say that mental illness "is a factor in some attempted suicides or completed suicides". It's by far the biggest factor. > More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have [depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders)] http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-u...
  - grandalf 14y ago
    Exactly, I didn't mean to generalize to claim that mental illness is the only cause, but I would say that mental illness is the common thread in 99%+ of suicides.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
>This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. And who are the screaming people making asses of themselves on the show?

Mz 14y ago

I attempted suicide at age 17. I am very clear it was due to social and physical factors, not mental illness. I blogged about that yesterday. I doubt you care, but this accusation of "he was merely mentally ill, the way he was being treated by people doesn't matter" is something I think is pure evil and merely an excuse to say "not my problem" and cover your ass.

grandalf 14y ago
Not merely mentally ill. Mental health in general should be taken more seriously. Many of our institutional systems (schools, prisons, etc.) are not conducive to habits that promote good mental health. Please be assured I am not dismissive of the importance of it. Also, people can have lapses in their mental health and then recover. There are also most certainly lots of factors that can push people to their limits. I do note that you were not successful in committing suicide, and in the name of discussion I might ask (if it weren't inappropriate to do so) why you were not successful in committing suicide. I have done a few thought experiments about suicide and it seems that some methods routinely fail while others never do. Thanks for sharing your story, and I apologize if my comment came off as insensitive or as an attempt to washy my hands of the key issues. I'm strongly opposed to the kind of stuff that was being done to Aaron fwiw.
- Mz 14y ago
  I have a genetic disorder. At the time I attempted suicide, I was undiagnosed. In part for that reason, I ended up with severe low blood sugar while also under severe social duress. The short version is that relatives who knew the man I was arguing with had molested me as a child were telling me to "behave" instead of telling him to stfu. The severe low blood sugar interfered with my plans to slash my wrists. Had I been clearer-headed, I likely would have succeeded. I had a scar from an old accident marking exactly where to cut myself to successfully bleed out. Instead, I ended up with a really insignificant flesh wound. You can read the blog post if you want more details. I still find your remarks objectionable. Severe duress often cannot be clearly distinguished from "mental illness". I have seen too many stories where someone was dismissed as paranoid, a drama queen, mentally ill, making shit up, etc where it later turned out their "dramatics" were 100% true.
  - grandalf 14y ago
    Severe duress often cannot be clearly distinguished from "mental illness" I 100% agree with this in terms of its accuracy in describing the symptoms. And I do not think mental illness should be stigmatized any more than other illnesses should be (which is not at all). The key though is that once mental illness occurs, rationality goes out the window. To a large extent causality goes out the window. You can't persuade a clinically depressed person to cheer up using a rational argument, the brain chemistry is going to overrule your rationality. So my intent in my initial comment was to draw a distinction between Aaron's explainable behavior (that which was derived from his rational process) and his unexplainable behavior (that which was derived from his brain chemistry getting out of whack and his conclusion that taking his own life was a good decision). I realize my sentiment ignores the possibility that the suicide was a direct and rational response to the prosecutors' tactics.
    - Mz 14y ago
      Among other things, I think you are seriously underestimating the chronic stress that a "prodigy" typically lives with. I walked away from a national merit scholarship and homeschooled my very gifted but also learning disabled sons. Issues like OCD are incredibly common at very high IQs. So are serious social issues. For an introvert, being a social outcast for being too smart may be merely annoying. For an extrovert, it may amount to torture. I think it unlikely you can convince me personally that his depression was entirely due to wonky brain chemistry. What little I know about his life suggests huge confounding factors, well before he was charged with a crime. Peace. And have an upvote.

DanBC2 14y ago

> the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else. This is simplistic and wrong. Mental illness is a factor in some attempted or completed suicides. But is mental ill health the only factor? No. There are many things that contribute to someone attempting suicide. Significant factors include debt, relationship breakdown, recent release from a MH hospital, previous attempts at suicide, a relative who completed suicide, etc. Many people have mental ill health, and not all of them kill themselves. The difference between the people who try suicide and those who don't is not severity of illness, but severity of other pressures.

nandemo 14y ago
grandalf's comment is inaccurate, but it's also a sort of understatement to say that mental illness "is a factor in some attempted suicides or completed suicides". It's by far the biggest factor. > More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have [depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders)] http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-u...
- grandalf 14y ago
  Exactly, I didn't mean to generalize to claim that mental illness is the only cause, but I would say that mental illness is the common thread in 99%+ of suicides.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

>This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. And who are the screaming people making asses of themselves on the show?