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I'd disagree here. Certain porn might be instructive, but most porn includes violence towards women. Not only that, but in 95% of scenes that included this viol

I'd disagree here. Certain porn might be instructive, but most porn includes violence towards women. Not only that, but in 95% of scenes that included this violence, the women responds either (a) with passive compliance or (b) enjoyment. This is teaching observers, those especially which have never been introduced to sex before, that women desire to be hit, beaten, strangled, raped, etc and if they don't enjoy it or allow you to do it to them, there's something wrong. If that kind of porn is what is instructing our youth, then we will have a very dangerous society to live in. Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaCt6qUL_Pk&feature=share http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaCt6qUL_Pk&feature=share I'm a father of 3 girls. I'm teaching them all how to defend themselves with and without a gun.

malandrew 14y ago
I was making a generalization, obviously imperfect and not applicable to all porn, and you simply pulled out a strawman argument. Sexual violence towards women existed well before any porn ever existed. For example, the vikings raped and pillaged. I'm pretty sure they didn't have porn available to motivate them. There are many more examples. Rape has been a constant in history and was not uncommon well before porn became readily available.
- mikecaron 14y ago
  I'm not saying there'd be no rape without porn. What I am saying is that rape and violence toward women increases with it.
  - malandrew 14y ago
    Citation needed. Your statement is purely speculative otherwise. In fact, a search for "rape vs porn" suggests that it reduces rape: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/10/how_the_web_prevents_rape.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/1... http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf
    - mikecaron 14y ago
      1. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/pornography-viewing-among-fraternity-men-effects-on-bystander-intervention-rape-myth-acceptance-and-behavioral-intent-to-commit-sexual-assault-research/ http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/pornography-viewing-amo... 2. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/effects-of-womens-pornography-use-on-bystander-intervention-in-a-sexual-assault-situation-and-rape-myth-acceptance-research/ http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/effects-of-womens-porno...
      - malandrew 14y ago
        My biggest issue with both of those studies, is that they involve self reports with respect to bystander involvement in an emergency. I can think of few other issues in social psychology in which self reporting is going to be wildly out of touch with reality. The only other area in which I can see self reporting being even further out of turn with reality is the subject of conformity. The biggest factor influencing bystander involvement in an emergency is actual experience or training in handling such emergencies and how to resolve them. If you want bystanders to identify a real rape and have them intervene, then you need to train them to identify the difference between consensual sex and non-consensual sex and then train them on the best course of action to stopping the act in question and reporting it. There are numerous examples of studies in social psychology where people self report that they would do X and when put in that exact situation in an experimental setting actually end up doing Y. Situations where the subject is a bystander are among the most notorious for their disconnect between reality and self-reports. Any study that measures the real impact of porn is going to involve measuring real incidents of rape witnessed or committed by a statistically significant population or porn viewers. Barring actual incident levels, this is crappy research. Asking questions like "Have you ever witnessed a rape in progress? And if so, did you do anything to report it or stop it?" and comparing those numbers to porn viewing habits would be far more valuable. At least in that case it ceases to be based on self-reports of behavior in hypothetical situations and is instead based on correlation of historical fact with porn habits. Lastly, and I know this is an ad hominem attack, but judging by John Foubert's other research interests, I'd consider his rape research to be tainted and likely to be skewed in favor of demonstrating correlation where there isn't one or demonstrating correlation which is of no consequence but is sensational. Judging by several of his other published papers, Christianity and Spirituality primary areas of research for him. This puts him among a group of people who are impartial and very likely have an agenda with respect to the issue of pornography. ref: http://okstate.academia.edu/JohnFoubert http://okstate.academia.edu/JohnFoubert Do you have any research that compares actual incidents of rape and porn?
Mz 14y ago
I am very sorry to hear that is your position concerning your daughters.
- notdonspaulding 14y ago
  I'm curious. Why? I have at least 2 daughters (with another child on the way, not sure of the sex) and I want them to be as capable as my son at hacking, changing the oil in their cars, and protecting themselves. This article is timely because the author is on the leading edge of a generation of men whose sexual education during their adolescent years was characterized by unprecedented access to pornography. The world has never seen the result of this being the case for millions of men. It's a father's job to prepare his children to engage in the world they will live in. You can be sure I'm keeping my eye on how having a Big Porn industry will play out for our generation, to give my kids the best chance they have to thrive in theirs.
  - Mz 14y ago
    I was sexually abused as a girl and raped as a child. When my sons were little, I was pretty sure I would kill someone if they were molested. I thought quite a lot about it and I do not believe escalating the battle of the sexes towards more violence and protection with guns helps the root problem. I think learning to promote a high standard of consent and mutual respect is a better antidote to our current ills. I speak out at times on forums when women are calling for the death penalty for rape and things like that. I don't think teaching girls to hate, fear, and assault men is a good way to protect them. I think it damages their chances of creating a healthy relationship.Teach them how to recognize disrespect and sidestep it. Teach them men are human too. Teach them about respectful consent. Teach them to honor their right to choose. I am fine with being willing and able to break bones if necessary. But I am not so fine with the starting assumption of hostility, distrust, and so on or actively promoting that as a firstline defense. A much better firstline defense is raising them in an environment of mutual consent. I wrote some about that here: http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-how-to-protect-kids-from-sexual-predators/ http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-h...
illuminate 14y ago
"most porn includes violence towards women" A good friend's job is specifically to monitor internet purchases of all manner of things that break bank and payment processor Terms of Service. While there is quite a lot of distressing porn that includes violence towards women (simulated or otherwise), "most" is an exaggeration. Interestingly enough, most of the people who manually verify compliance seem to be women.

malandrew 14y ago

I was making a generalization, obviously imperfect and not applicable to all porn, and you simply pulled out a strawman argument. Sexual violence towards women existed well before any porn ever existed. For example, the vikings raped and pillaged. I'm pretty sure they didn't have porn available to motivate them. There are many more examples. Rape has been a constant in history and was not uncommon well before porn became readily available.

mikecaron 14y ago
I'm not saying there'd be no rape without porn. What I am saying is that rape and violence toward women increases with it.
- malandrew 14y ago
  Citation needed. Your statement is purely speculative otherwise. In fact, a search for "rape vs porn" suggests that it reduces rape: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/10/how_the_web_prevents_rape.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/1... http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf
  - mikecaron 14y ago
    1. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/pornography-viewing-among-fraternity-men-effects-on-bystander-intervention-rape-myth-acceptance-and-behavioral-intent-to-commit-sexual-assault-research/ http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/pornography-viewing-amo... 2. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/effects-of-womens-pornography-use-on-bystander-intervention-in-a-sexual-assault-situation-and-rape-myth-acceptance-research/ http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/effects-of-womens-porno...
    - malandrew 14y ago
      My biggest issue with both of those studies, is that they involve self reports with respect to bystander involvement in an emergency. I can think of few other issues in social psychology in which self reporting is going to be wildly out of touch with reality. The only other area in which I can see self reporting being even further out of turn with reality is the subject of conformity. The biggest factor influencing bystander involvement in an emergency is actual experience or training in handling such emergencies and how to resolve them. If you want bystanders to identify a real rape and have them intervene, then you need to train them to identify the difference between consensual sex and non-consensual sex and then train them on the best course of action to stopping the act in question and reporting it. There are numerous examples of studies in social psychology where people self report that they would do X and when put in that exact situation in an experimental setting actually end up doing Y. Situations where the subject is a bystander are among the most notorious for their disconnect between reality and self-reports. Any study that measures the real impact of porn is going to involve measuring real incidents of rape witnessed or committed by a statistically significant population or porn viewers. Barring actual incident levels, this is crappy research. Asking questions like "Have you ever witnessed a rape in progress? And if so, did you do anything to report it or stop it?" and comparing those numbers to porn viewing habits would be far more valuable. At least in that case it ceases to be based on self-reports of behavior in hypothetical situations and is instead based on correlation of historical fact with porn habits. Lastly, and I know this is an ad hominem attack, but judging by John Foubert's other research interests, I'd consider his rape research to be tainted and likely to be skewed in favor of demonstrating correlation where there isn't one or demonstrating correlation which is of no consequence but is sensational. Judging by several of his other published papers, Christianity and Spirituality primary areas of research for him. This puts him among a group of people who are impartial and very likely have an agenda with respect to the issue of pornography. ref: http://okstate.academia.edu/JohnFoubert http://okstate.academia.edu/JohnFoubert Do you have any research that compares actual incidents of rape and porn?

Mz 14y ago

I am very sorry to hear that is your position concerning your daughters.

notdonspaulding 14y ago
I'm curious. Why? I have at least 2 daughters (with another child on the way, not sure of the sex) and I want them to be as capable as my son at hacking, changing the oil in their cars, and protecting themselves. This article is timely because the author is on the leading edge of a generation of men whose sexual education during their adolescent years was characterized by unprecedented access to pornography. The world has never seen the result of this being the case for millions of men. It's a father's job to prepare his children to engage in the world they will live in. You can be sure I'm keeping my eye on how having a Big Porn industry will play out for our generation, to give my kids the best chance they have to thrive in theirs.
- Mz 14y ago
  I was sexually abused as a girl and raped as a child. When my sons were little, I was pretty sure I would kill someone if they were molested. I thought quite a lot about it and I do not believe escalating the battle of the sexes towards more violence and protection with guns helps the root problem. I think learning to promote a high standard of consent and mutual respect is a better antidote to our current ills. I speak out at times on forums when women are calling for the death penalty for rape and things like that. I don't think teaching girls to hate, fear, and assault men is a good way to protect them. I think it damages their chances of creating a healthy relationship.Teach them how to recognize disrespect and sidestep it. Teach them men are human too. Teach them about respectful consent. Teach them to honor their right to choose. I am fine with being willing and able to break bones if necessary. But I am not so fine with the starting assumption of hostility, distrust, and so on or actively promoting that as a firstline defense. A much better firstline defense is raising them in an environment of mutual consent. I wrote some about that here: http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-how-to-protect-kids-from-sexual-predators/ http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-h...

illuminate 14y ago

"most porn includes violence towards women" A good friend's job is specifically to monitor internet purchases of all manner of things that break bank and payment processor Terms of Service. While there is quite a lot of distressing porn that includes violence towards women (simulated or otherwise), "most" is an exaggeration. Interestingly enough, most of the people who manually verify compliance seem to be women.