4 ms·

There are some good comments there. I think that Free Software, in all forms, has helped raise the bar for paid software. I remember paying for some really si

by brk 18y ago

There are some good comments there. I think that Free Software, in all forms, has helped raise the bar for paid software. I remember paying for some really simple and crappy stuff (commercial software) back in the 80's and early 90's. A lot of it was stuff that has a comparable free counterpart today. I do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software. The free options HAVE required that the paid software have a true value though.

Xichekolas 18y ago
> I remember paying for some really simple and crappy stuff (commercial software) back in the 80's and early 90's. My company is still paying for really crappy software instead of using free alternatives. They just slap the label 'Enterprise' on something crappy, and sadly companies just eat it up. Granted, there aren't really a lot of free alternatives to most enterprise software... most likely because ERP middleware is not fun to do in your spare time.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  I can't find the exact quote to properly cite it, but somebody once said something like, "Stick five of the best open source programmers in a room for a week, give them a really hard problem, and you'll get three mail readers and two text-mode web browsers."
RK 18y ago
I do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software. The free options HAVE required that the paid software have a true value though. Which browser are you using? Not only have open source browsers like Firefox gained huge market share, but if you remember back in the day, you had to pay for any browser until MS decided to start giving IE away.
- brk 18y ago
  I use Firefox. Pretty much all browsers are free. I remember browsers backs to Mosaic, don't remember there ever being a charge for personal use. As important as the browser is, in many ways it is also transparent (or least supposed to be ;) ). I'm not sure that there ever really WAS a market for browsers. I remember Netscape was trying to make their money by selling server software, not the browser itself for the most part. A little like the razor blade model. Your point is well taken, and there are exceptions to every rule.
  - RK 18y ago
    Netscape had a weird policy, giving away their browser free for academic and non-profit use, before finally giving it away for free to compete with MS. I actually remember bragging to a friend when I was in college, since I didn't have to pay for Netscape, but he did... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator
  - ahoyhere 18y ago
    Netscape sold Netscape up until version 4, if I recall correctly. For $20-40. In certain situations, the browser was free. But you could walk into Computer City or CompUSA and buy it in a box. Opera was un-free for a long time. So were a number of Mac OS browsers. (iCab, etc.) Perhaps you should have your memory checked ;)
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
scott_s 18y ago
I do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software. There is no commercial market for compilers on Unix-based systems. Gcc is just too good.
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  Um, Intel and IBM both have their own proprietary compilers. Both are quite good.
  - scott_s 18y ago
    That is true, I had forgotten about the high performance market. Their compilers generate faster code because their engineers know their respective architectures better than the community at large. But, that's a relatively small market.
timf 18y ago
"do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software" Linux is another exception, especially for servers. And Apache httpd.
- brk 18y ago
  In the places where linux and apache excel, I would argue that the "paid" software options are not "legitimate" or "valuable".
  - timf 18y ago
    If the OSS competition being better (in both of our opinions) and more popular than previous giants means that the old option is then no longer "legitimate" or "valuable" then your argument is kind of a tautology. Plenty of people get done what they want done and walk away satisfied with the paid alternatives such as IIS or in the case of Linux another server platform (SSI, mainframes, Windows, etc.). How are these things "illegitimate"? I agree with your point overall, I was just pointing out exceptions. Another one is Xen vs. VMware.
  - kragen 18y ago
    You think that, for running a networked server, none of Solaris, OS/400, z/OS, Microsoft Windows, OpenVMS, Ultrix, AIX, MCP, NeXTStep, MacOS X, Netscape Enterprise Server, HP/UX, IRIX, NaviServer, BSD/OS, etc., were ever legitimate or valuable? I'm sure that comes as a surprise to the people who spent thousands of man-years writing that software. Or did they stop being legitimate and valuable when Linux and Apache got better than they were?

by brk 18y ago

Xichekolas 18y ago

> I remember paying for some really simple and crappy stuff (commercial software) back in the 80's and early 90's. My company is still paying for really crappy software instead of using free alternatives. They just slap the label 'Enterprise' on something crappy, and sadly companies just eat it up. Granted, there aren't really a lot of free alternatives to most enterprise software... most likely because ERP middleware is not fun to do in your spare time.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
silentbicycle 18y ago
I can't find the exact quote to properly cite it, but somebody once said something like, "Stick five of the best open source programmers in a room for a week, give them a really hard problem, and you'll get three mail readers and two text-mode web browsers."

RK 18y ago

I do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software. The free options HAVE required that the paid software have a true value though. Which browser are you using? Not only have open source browsers like Firefox gained huge market share, but if you remember back in the day, you had to pay for any browser until MS decided to start giving IE away.

brk 18y ago
I use Firefox. Pretty much all browsers are free. I remember browsers backs to Mosaic, don't remember there ever being a charge for personal use. As important as the browser is, in many ways it is also transparent (or least supposed to be ;) ). I'm not sure that there ever really WAS a market for browsers. I remember Netscape was trying to make their money by selling server software, not the browser itself for the most part. A little like the razor blade model. Your point is well taken, and there are exceptions to every rule.
- RK 18y ago
  Netscape had a weird policy, giving away their browser free for academic and non-profit use, before finally giving it away for free to compete with MS. I actually remember bragging to a friend when I was in college, since I didn't have to pay for Netscape, but he did... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator
- ahoyhere 18y ago
  Netscape sold Netscape up until version 4, if I recall correctly. For $20-40. In certain situations, the browser was free. But you could walk into Computer City or CompUSA and buy it in a box. Opera was un-free for a long time. So were a number of Mac OS browsers. (iCab, etc.) Perhaps you should have your memory checked ;)
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

scott_s 18y ago

I do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software. There is no commercial market for compilers on Unix-based systems. Gcc is just too good.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
Um, Intel and IBM both have their own proprietary compilers. Both are quite good.
- scott_s 18y ago
  That is true, I had forgotten about the high performance market. Their compilers generate faster code because their engineers know their respective architectures better than the community at large. But, that's a relatively small market.

timf 18y ago

"do not believe that any legitimate valuable software product has lost a significant piece of their marketshare to free software" Linux is another exception, especially for servers. And Apache httpd.

brk 18y ago
In the places where linux and apache excel, I would argue that the "paid" software options are not "legitimate" or "valuable".
- timf 18y ago
  If the OSS competition being better (in both of our opinions) and more popular than previous giants means that the old option is then no longer "legitimate" or "valuable" then your argument is kind of a tautology. Plenty of people get done what they want done and walk away satisfied with the paid alternatives such as IIS or in the case of Linux another server platform (SSI, mainframes, Windows, etc.). How are these things "illegitimate"? I agree with your point overall, I was just pointing out exceptions. Another one is Xen vs. VMware.
- kragen 18y ago
  You think that, for running a networked server, none of Solaris, OS/400, z/OS, Microsoft Windows, OpenVMS, Ultrix, AIX, MCP, NeXTStep, MacOS X, Netscape Enterprise Server, HP/UX, IRIX, NaviServer, BSD/OS, etc., were ever legitimate or valuable? I'm sure that comes as a surprise to the people who spent thousands of man-years writing that software. Or did they stop being legitimate and valuable when Linux and Apache got better than they were?