5 ms·

Dude. Dude. Listen to yourself... a) "Everyone installs K-lite" Wow yeah. Everyone who torrents. All the other poor fellas have no idea. And I personally know

Dude. Dude. Listen to yourself... a) "Everyone installs K-lite" Wow yeah. Everyone who torrents. All the other poor fellas have no idea. And I personally know those other poor fellas and they could not tell you want a codec is if you put a gun to their heads. Hell, my wife is one. b) I WISH there was a Windows 8 live CD. MS does not want you to "try windows" they want you committed. c) Drivers. Ok I give you this one. For the most part windows 7 is ok. Gone are the windows XP days where if you didn't have a disk on you, you didn't have your network card drivers. d) There is NO PACKAGE MANAGER! None, ZERO. Windows Installer as a package manager is like saying my Garage is a parking lot + valet. Windows installer (this atrocity that is...) is used to... INSTALL software. It's a glorified unzip. There is no way to say "oh hey windows installer, I'd really like to install ruby 1.9.3 with sources" and it would say "give me an hour". Instead you say "windows installer? hello? ok to google!"... "to google" can often lead an unexperience used like my grandfather to download spyware. e) Well. At least windows can be downloaded now as a free unactivated copy. Gone are the days where I purchase a copy of windows only to find out I can't get a legal disk image of windows 7 stand-alone. Only some upgrade, which is not upgradable from windows xp 32 bit.

vincentkriek 14y ago
a) They install VLC. It plays everything you throw at it. d) It does manage your software and you can use the package manager to remove software.
meaty 14y ago
a) Even my grandparents worked out how to find and install k-lite codec pack. b) No there is just no value in it. 99% of PCs come with it preinstalled. Why would they bother to target a few Linux users. d) Yes there is. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer - yes a fully transactional installation system. If you can work out which things not to put your penis in, then you can work out which web sites are trying to rip you off. Oh and they even bother to sign official packages and warn you if it looks dodgy.
- Justsignedup 14y ago
  a) good for them, that's a sample of 1. b) I cannot agree more. However this is still a great parody as to the fact that getting even a sniff of windows is an effort in itself if you didn't have it installed. d) Sorry, a unzip with rollback capabilities and upgrade tools. Still not close to apt / homebrew / etc. Look if windows installer didn't have the ability to say that MS Visual C++ distribution is a requirement for running this software, it would not be worth the space it takes on ur hard drive. In any case. Let's do one with a linux user trying to install Mac OSX... Fast one - Looks like I need to shell out 1000 dollars on a macbook air because there's no way to even try it out on my laptop without spending days making a "hackintosh"
  - BHSPitMonkey 14y ago
    > - Looks like I need to shell out 1000 dollars on a macbook air because there's no way to even try it out on my laptop without spending days making a "hackintosh" To be fair, setting up a "hackintosh" install isn't really any harder than setting up Gentoo or Arch. It's not a very relevant comparison though; Unlike with Windows or Linux, the makers of OS X explicitly do not want people installing their OS on "PC" hardware.
bendmorris 14y ago
While there is technically a package manager (as others have pointed out) I think what you mean is that there's no official centralized repository. That's a legitimate complaint I have with Windows and one of the reasons I wouldn't consider going back. It is baffling to me that Windows still requires their users to navigate to firefox.com to install Firefox, etc. For people I introduce to Ubuntu this is a major selling point.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I suppose the closest is the Windows Store?
- entropy_ 14y ago
  My impression was that they are trying to remedy that with the store(whatever they're calling it) in windows 8. Yes, I know it's not the same because that's only for metro apps but I guess it would be close enough. Honestly, I haven't used windows(other than in VMs that is) since windows XP. When vista came out, I went "fuck that shit" and switched to ubuntu(then gentoo and eventually settled on Arch). Now my personal laptop is still running Arch and for work I use a macbook and an iMac(Hate the fact that you can't develop for iOS without OSX but meh, gotta be pragmatic). TL;DR; I'm no expert but I guess they're trying to remedy that with the store thingy in Win8.
  - joenathan 14y ago
    The store in Windows 8 isn't only for Metro apps, it has desktop apps too, the only difference is the store handles the discovery but doesn't handle the install of the desktop apps.
- Camillo 14y ago
  Windows simply uses a decentralized approach to software discovery, based on the open web. Anybody can put their software up for download on their own website built with web standards, without having to go through any gatekeeper such as a distro manager. Multiple entities can offer software discovery services (Google, Yahoo, Bing... To say nothing of specialized services), again based on open web standards. It's a more bazaar-like system than the average Linux distro's official repository cathedral, but the huge variety of software available for Windows shows that it works pretty well.
talmir 14y ago
Dude. Dude. Listen to yourself... a) It is the same as in linux. Linux does not have a magic "Install this HERE" button for whatever problem arises any more than windows does. b) The general, run of the mill, average person does not need, want or care about live cd's. Businesses (which form the main core of microsofts business) do not want, need or care about live cd's when they buy the system. So why should microsoft spend time on creating them when a super tiny percentage of users will ever use them? c) Driver management (in my personal experience) is easier in windows than it is in linux. d) Go back in time, before the internet, when linux package managers only showed you what was installed on the system at a given time and only offered you the option to install packages you had already downloaded/copied to the system. That is what the microsoft thingy (Cant remember the name atm) is. It might not be as fancy as the linux variant, but it is still, in fact, a type of package manager and the MSI files are still, in fact, a type of package manager. Enjoy your garage parking lot + valet. The theme from your comments is that a inexperienced user, like your wife f.x. which you used as an example, has a easier time doing pretty much ANYTHING in windows than in linux. And through technical inexperience they can cause much more damage in a much shorter time on linux than in windows. So just chill, relax, look at the sky. The dude was just correcting some inconcistensies in the original article. He wasnt attacking you personally. He wasnt attacking your personal view of the software world. He was just writing a comment.
- rmk2 14y ago
  > a) It is the same as in linux. Linux does not have a magic "Install this HERE" button for whatever problem arises any more than windows does. I would just like to point out that something like that is entirely possible: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install And as an example[1]: you can go to http://software.opensuse.org/ http://software.opensuse.org/, and type the name of a program[2] in there, and it will give you a quick description along with a link that installs that program by enabling the appropriate repository. This means you get the program automatically, in one click, and you get a working upgrade path since the repository is selected. I think that's pretty close to magic, and it is all centralised as well! [1]: To provide a direct example: http://software.opensuse.org/package/chromium http://software.opensuse.org/package/chromium [2]: It doesn't actually need to be a name, you can also type e.g. "Browser" and look through the results until you find something suitable and/or what you were looking for. edit: formatting...
manojlds 14y ago
There have been efforts to get Chocolatey going - http://chocolatey.org/ http://chocolatey.org/ I used it to setup most of my dev stuff in my box. VS, SQL server, Sublime, Git, and others - all installed using Chocolatey. How's it like? cinst git and git is installed. Based on Powershell.
- Groxx 14y ago
  What's the difference between "cinst git" and "cinst git.install" and why do both exist?
alushta 14y ago
Try http://chocolatey.org/ http://chocolatey.org/
FredFredrickson 14y ago
>I WISH there was a Windows 8 live CD. MS does not want you to "try windows" they want you committed. I kind of have to take issue with this one... They handed out the pre-release version of Win 8 for a half a year. It had no upgrade-to-full option, but for anyone who wanted to try it, they put it out there. I'll admit that they don't give you a lot of [read: any] try-before-you-buy options for Win 8 currently, but this is the first version in a while that they've done like that, so it might get better again.
- Groxx 14y ago
  Which only early-adopters and the techy side of the population would even remotely consider using, yes. It doesn't count. At all. It was a "be nice to developers and crowd-source the bug-hunting" gesture, not a "lets get everyone in the world to try Win8 for free!" one.
TheAnimus 14y ago
d) except for the one in Windows 8. They call it the "Store" because package manager is scary, and doesn't allow you to part with money quite so easily. Maybe someone should make a fork? sudo apt-get install 99centgame --CREDIT_CARD 4959 4959 4959 4959 01/14

vincentkriek 14y ago

a) They install VLC. It plays everything you throw at it. d) It does manage your software and you can use the package manager to remove software.

meaty 14y ago

a) Even my grandparents worked out how to find and install k-lite codec pack. b) No there is just no value in it. 99% of PCs come with it preinstalled. Why would they bother to target a few Linux users. d) Yes there is. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer - yes a fully transactional installation system. If you can work out which things not to put your penis in, then you can work out which web sites are trying to rip you off. Oh and they even bother to sign official packages and warn you if it looks dodgy.

Justsignedup 14y ago
a) good for them, that's a sample of 1. b) I cannot agree more. However this is still a great parody as to the fact that getting even a sniff of windows is an effort in itself if you didn't have it installed. d) Sorry, a unzip with rollback capabilities and upgrade tools. Still not close to apt / homebrew / etc. Look if windows installer didn't have the ability to say that MS Visual C++ distribution is a requirement for running this software, it would not be worth the space it takes on ur hard drive. In any case. Let's do one with a linux user trying to install Mac OSX... Fast one - Looks like I need to shell out 1000 dollars on a macbook air because there's no way to even try it out on my laptop without spending days making a "hackintosh"
- BHSPitMonkey 14y ago
  > - Looks like I need to shell out 1000 dollars on a macbook air because there's no way to even try it out on my laptop without spending days making a "hackintosh" To be fair, setting up a "hackintosh" install isn't really any harder than setting up Gentoo or Arch. It's not a very relevant comparison though; Unlike with Windows or Linux, the makers of OS X explicitly do not want people installing their OS on "PC" hardware.

bendmorris 14y ago

While there is technically a package manager (as others have pointed out) I think what you mean is that there's no official centralized repository. That's a legitimate complaint I have with Windows and one of the reasons I wouldn't consider going back. It is baffling to me that Windows still requires their users to navigate to firefox.com to install Firefox, etc. For people I introduce to Ubuntu this is a major selling point.

jiggy2011 14y ago
I suppose the closest is the Windows Store?
entropy_ 14y ago
My impression was that they are trying to remedy that with the store(whatever they're calling it) in windows 8. Yes, I know it's not the same because that's only for metro apps but I guess it would be close enough. Honestly, I haven't used windows(other than in VMs that is) since windows XP. When vista came out, I went "fuck that shit" and switched to ubuntu(then gentoo and eventually settled on Arch). Now my personal laptop is still running Arch and for work I use a macbook and an iMac(Hate the fact that you can't develop for iOS without OSX but meh, gotta be pragmatic). TL;DR; I'm no expert but I guess they're trying to remedy that with the store thingy in Win8.
- joenathan 14y ago
  The store in Windows 8 isn't only for Metro apps, it has desktop apps too, the only difference is the store handles the discovery but doesn't handle the install of the desktop apps.
Camillo 14y ago
Windows simply uses a decentralized approach to software discovery, based on the open web. Anybody can put their software up for download on their own website built with web standards, without having to go through any gatekeeper such as a distro manager. Multiple entities can offer software discovery services (Google, Yahoo, Bing... To say nothing of specialized services), again based on open web standards. It's a more bazaar-like system than the average Linux distro's official repository cathedral, but the huge variety of software available for Windows shows that it works pretty well.

talmir 14y ago

Dude. Dude. Listen to yourself... a) It is the same as in linux. Linux does not have a magic "Install this HERE" button for whatever problem arises any more than windows does. b) The general, run of the mill, average person does not need, want or care about live cd's. Businesses (which form the main core of microsofts business) do not want, need or care about live cd's when they buy the system. So why should microsoft spend time on creating them when a super tiny percentage of users will ever use them? c) Driver management (in my personal experience) is easier in windows than it is in linux. d) Go back in time, before the internet, when linux package managers only showed you what was installed on the system at a given time and only offered you the option to install packages you had already downloaded/copied to the system. That is what the microsoft thingy (Cant remember the name atm) is. It might not be as fancy as the linux variant, but it is still, in fact, a type of package manager and the MSI files are still, in fact, a type of package manager. Enjoy your garage parking lot + valet. The theme from your comments is that a inexperienced user, like your wife f.x. which you used as an example, has a easier time doing pretty much ANYTHING in windows than in linux. And through technical inexperience they can cause much more damage in a much shorter time on linux than in windows. So just chill, relax, look at the sky. The dude was just correcting some inconcistensies in the original article. He wasnt attacking you personally. He wasnt attacking your personal view of the software world. He was just writing a comment.

rmk2 14y ago
> a) It is the same as in linux. Linux does not have a magic "Install this HERE" button for whatever problem arises any more than windows does. I would just like to point out that something like that is entirely possible: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install And as an example[1]: you can go to http://software.opensuse.org/ http://software.opensuse.org/, and type the name of a program[2] in there, and it will give you a quick description along with a link that installs that program by enabling the appropriate repository. This means you get the program automatically, in one click, and you get a working upgrade path since the repository is selected. I think that's pretty close to magic, and it is all centralised as well! [1]: To provide a direct example: http://software.opensuse.org/package/chromium http://software.opensuse.org/package/chromium [2]: It doesn't actually need to be a name, you can also type e.g. "Browser" and look through the results until you find something suitable and/or what you were looking for. edit: formatting...

manojlds 14y ago

There have been efforts to get Chocolatey going - http://chocolatey.org/ http://chocolatey.org/ I used it to setup most of my dev stuff in my box. VS, SQL server, Sublime, Git, and others - all installed using Chocolatey. How's it like? cinst git and git is installed. Based on Powershell.

Groxx 14y ago
What's the difference between "cinst git" and "cinst git.install" and why do both exist?

alushta 14y ago

Try http://chocolatey.org/ http://chocolatey.org/

FredFredrickson 14y ago

>I WISH there was a Windows 8 live CD. MS does not want you to "try windows" they want you committed. I kind of have to take issue with this one... They handed out the pre-release version of Win 8 for a half a year. It had no upgrade-to-full option, but for anyone who wanted to try it, they put it out there. I'll admit that they don't give you a lot of [read: any] try-before-you-buy options for Win 8 currently, but this is the first version in a while that they've done like that, so it might get better again.

Groxx 14y ago
Which only early-adopters and the techy side of the population would even remotely consider using, yes. It doesn't count. At all. It was a "be nice to developers and crowd-source the bug-hunting" gesture, not a "lets get everyone in the world to try Win8 for free!" one.

TheAnimus 14y ago

d) except for the one in Windows 8. They call it the "Store" because package manager is scary, and doesn't allow you to part with money quite so easily. Maybe someone should make a fork? sudo apt-get install 99centgame --CREDIT_CARD 4959 4959 4959 4959 01/14