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I've been following all of this information about decriminalisation closely, including what the results from Portugal, which I found really interesting. I don'

by jwdunne 14y ago

I've been following all of this information about decriminalisation closely, including what the results from Portugal, which I found really interesting. I don't get David Cameron at all. This may be due to my upbringing, which is working class where Tories are generally hated, sometimes irrationally, but I don't think my confusion is irrational. He seems very ignorant, down to the core. This is a man who hasn't lived the working class life, hasn't come close to touching it. He is even descends from royalty. He says his policies are beneficial to the majority of the UK, which simply isn't true. The increase on VAT hit the poorest families hard. The rejig on child support hit the families hard. The problem is that it doesn't seem like he's even aware of these effects and it seems true here too. He says that their current policies are working fine and that it's the right way forward yet "over-crowded prisons" have become a meme. It's costing us money to house people in prisons for these crimes. It's costing us money when these people cannot contribute to society, which some may actually would have done if they weren't in prison. I see kids influenced by drug dealers into trying things out. I know this, I was one of them (stupid, I admit). Once they've become accustomed to one thing, something harder is introduced. It just seems extremely ignorant to me.

arethuza 14y ago
I don't think he is ignorant at all - he knows fine well that the "traditonal" Conservative voter would never back a party that supported greater freedom (and commonsense) around drugs.
- hackerboos 14y ago
  Which is ironic considering letting people do what they want with their own bodies is pretty conservative.
  - seabee 14y ago
    Conservatism isn't synonymous with libertarianism.
  - simonh 14y ago
    That's a libertarian value, not a conservative one.
- jwdunne 14y ago
  He is completely ignorant to the effects his government are having on many people, including with this. The traditional Tory voter are viewed as having little to no care for the working class too, which is why many Tories are viewed with disdain where I live. Like I said, I've seen some great stuff for businesses but awful things happen to regular people e.g people who should spend their time recovering being forced into work and the VAT increase I mentioned.
  - arethuza 14y ago
    "The traditional Tory voter are viewed as having little to no care for the working class too" Not really - working class people in the UK have been voting for the Conservatives in large numbers since at least 1979. Edit: Some numbers to justify this from the last general election: "In the C2 class 37% voted Conservative compared to 29% for Labour, and in the DE group 31% voted Conservative and 40% Labour." NB C2 is defined as "lower working class", DE as "temporarily or long-term unemployed". http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/modern/uk_gov_politics/elect_vote/revision/2/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/modern/uk_gov_politics/...
laumars 14y ago
The sad thing is, I think all the big parties are the same these days. It's not even a case of voting for the "lesser evil", they're all equally bad just better or worse on different policies. While I would never give up my right to vote and disagree with voter apathy, even I'm starting to question the point of it all. I suppose I should at least be grateful that I live in a democracy; however I can't help thinking that it's all just for show and that us "little people" actually have no power nor influence what-so-ever. It's all the same shit but from a different parties.
- LatvjuAvs 14y ago
  You earn money because you did what you are asked to. That is your purpose, that is your destiny, that is your one and only target in your life. Care to disagree?
  - laumars 14y ago
    Well yeah, I disagree. I suspect most people would (even if only at the 'one and only target in your life' part). Sorry, but I'm at a complete loss as to how that follows on from my post.
    - LatvjuAvs 14y ago
      Maybe my expression wasn't right this time, no matter. I have something in my mind that can't formulate good enough. It is good that you disagree. I hope it goes further than just disagree. When you have a friend, you must put a mask in front of you to interact with him. Whenever you talk with your superior, you most likely will put on mask on you. Whenever you have to talk with business partners, most cases, the mask. When you have a wife, many times, you will have to pull up the mask. Police, neighbors.... These rare times, when we talk in this chat box and I do not know you, nor I see you, I do not need a mask. Rude people, they do have my respect, most of the times, they do not have a mask. It was more or less about, living in system where only recognizable way of expressing yourself is doing what you are told. Have a nice day!
simonh 14y ago
>I don't get David Cameron at all. This may be due to my upbringing, which is working class >where Tories are generally hated, sometimes irrationally, but I don't think my confusion is irrational. Not your main point, I know, but this is very region and job sector dependent. I became politically aware in the early 80s and remember well that the landslide Conservative victories in '79 and the 80s was fuelled to a large extent by working class votes. >He says his policies are beneficial to the majority of the UK, which simply isn't true. The increase on VAT >hit the poorest families hard. The rejig on child support hit the families hard. The poorest are always the hardest hit when times are hard. That doesn't make it OK, but I think most voters realise that's always going to be true. The Winter of Discontent and general strikes in practice barely touched the upper/upper middle class, but it was scorched earth warfare against those most in need. Hence the Conservative clean sweep throughout the 80s. > It just seems extremely ignorant to me. I do agree with your main points, criminalisation of drugs is a disaster. Whether Cameron knows this or not isn't really a factor though, any more than it's a factor whether Obama knows it. In reality, no major party is going to support legalisation if they also want to be in government. Change that, and then we'll find out what they really think.

by jwdunne 14y ago

arethuza 14y ago

I don't think he is ignorant at all - he knows fine well that the "traditonal" Conservative voter would never back a party that supported greater freedom (and commonsense) around drugs.

hackerboos 14y ago
Which is ironic considering letting people do what they want with their own bodies is pretty conservative.
- seabee 14y ago
  Conservatism isn't synonymous with libertarianism.
- simonh 14y ago
  That's a libertarian value, not a conservative one.
jwdunne 14y ago
He is completely ignorant to the effects his government are having on many people, including with this. The traditional Tory voter are viewed as having little to no care for the working class too, which is why many Tories are viewed with disdain where I live. Like I said, I've seen some great stuff for businesses but awful things happen to regular people e.g people who should spend their time recovering being forced into work and the VAT increase I mentioned.
- arethuza 14y ago
  "The traditional Tory voter are viewed as having little to no care for the working class too" Not really - working class people in the UK have been voting for the Conservatives in large numbers since at least 1979. Edit: Some numbers to justify this from the last general election: "In the C2 class 37% voted Conservative compared to 29% for Labour, and in the DE group 31% voted Conservative and 40% Labour." NB C2 is defined as "lower working class", DE as "temporarily or long-term unemployed". http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/modern/uk_gov_politics/elect_vote/revision/2/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/modern/uk_gov_politics/...

laumars 14y ago

The sad thing is, I think all the big parties are the same these days. It's not even a case of voting for the "lesser evil", they're all equally bad just better or worse on different policies. While I would never give up my right to vote and disagree with voter apathy, even I'm starting to question the point of it all. I suppose I should at least be grateful that I live in a democracy; however I can't help thinking that it's all just for show and that us "little people" actually have no power nor influence what-so-ever. It's all the same shit but from a different parties.

LatvjuAvs 14y ago
You earn money because you did what you are asked to. That is your purpose, that is your destiny, that is your one and only target in your life. Care to disagree?
- laumars 14y ago
  Well yeah, I disagree. I suspect most people would (even if only at the 'one and only target in your life' part). Sorry, but I'm at a complete loss as to how that follows on from my post.
  - LatvjuAvs 14y ago
    Maybe my expression wasn't right this time, no matter. I have something in my mind that can't formulate good enough. It is good that you disagree. I hope it goes further than just disagree. When you have a friend, you must put a mask in front of you to interact with him. Whenever you talk with your superior, you most likely will put on mask on you. Whenever you have to talk with business partners, most cases, the mask. When you have a wife, many times, you will have to pull up the mask. Police, neighbors.... These rare times, when we talk in this chat box and I do not know you, nor I see you, I do not need a mask. Rude people, they do have my respect, most of the times, they do not have a mask. It was more or less about, living in system where only recognizable way of expressing yourself is doing what you are told. Have a nice day!

simonh 14y ago

>I don't get David Cameron at all. This may be due to my upbringing, which is working class >where Tories are generally hated, sometimes irrationally, but I don't think my confusion is irrational. Not your main point, I know, but this is very region and job sector dependent. I became politically aware in the early 80s and remember well that the landslide Conservative victories in '79 and the 80s was fuelled to a large extent by working class votes. >He says his policies are beneficial to the majority of the UK, which simply isn't true. The increase on VAT >hit the poorest families hard. The rejig on child support hit the families hard. The poorest are always the hardest hit when times are hard. That doesn't make it OK, but I think most voters realise that's always going to be true. The Winter of Discontent and general strikes in practice barely touched the upper/upper middle class, but it was scorched earth warfare against those most in need. Hence the Conservative clean sweep throughout the 80s. > It just seems extremely ignorant to me. I do agree with your main points, criminalisation of drugs is a disaster. Whether Cameron knows this or not isn't really a factor though, any more than it's a factor whether Obama knows it. In reality, no major party is going to support legalisation if they also want to be in government. Change that, and then we'll find out what they really think.