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The problem with writings like this is that they murky the waters between curiosity , creativity and doing stuff that is actually illegal. Nobody is going to a

by jiggy2011 14y ago

The problem with writings like this is that they murky the waters between curiosity , creativity and doing stuff that is actually illegal. Nobody is going to arrest you for "curiosity" but they might arrest you for bank tampering because somebody might you know have their life savings in there.

lawnchair_larry 14y ago
I assure you, these people were not interested in your life savings. Having never met the author of this piece, I can still confidently say that he and everyone else in that culture, then and now, would have opposed anyone hacking to raid some poor bystander's bank account. It's this sort of fear mongering that got us here.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering", just quoting the article.
- loydb 14y ago
  Well, that's not strictly true. I know at least a couple of folks from that era who would pilfer a bank account in a heartbeat, given the opportunity (they tended to be active 'carders'). They were, however, treated with disdain by 99% of the 'exploratory' hackers I knew. The catalyst for me getting out of the black hat side (other than aging out of the 'being bad is fun' stage) was getting into a massive system from which I could have easily pilfered millions. Thoughts of everything from "set up Swiss bank account, fill up" to "offer to 'consult' with the company in question to fix the holes" went through my head. In the end, I just said "game over, I won," stopped cracking systems, and put up the Phoenix Project BBS as a center of learning. Which lasted until the Secret Service showed up at my door in 1990...
  - lawnchair_larry 14y ago
    I'm not saying none of them existed, just that isn't what this culture was about. As you said, such types were unwelcome in the community, and I'm pretty sure that isn't what your manifesto was about (but correct me if I'm wrong).
    - loydb 14y ago
      No, you're right. I just don't want to see it painted in a fairy dust of nostalgia. There were some real criminals involved, and I'm sure there were many who nobody ever knew played both sides. There were plenty of guys that were good enough at hiding their True Name that they could have been anyone. Not just random dudes on a bbs, but folks I "knew" with serious technical skills.
rickmb 14y ago
Those waters were murky from the beginning. Always have been, always will be. Also, "illegal" is not a constant, often arbitrary and usually serves only the interests of those that want to maintain the status quo. If curiosity and creativity was constrained by what happens to be illegal at any given time, our society would look a lot different, and not for the better.

lawnchair_larry 14y ago

I assure you, these people were not interested in your life savings. Having never met the author of this piece, I can still confidently say that he and everyone else in that culture, then and now, would have opposed anyone hacking to raid some poor bystander's bank account. It's this sort of fear mongering that got us here.

jiggy2011 14y ago
"Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering", just quoting the article.
loydb 14y ago
Well, that's not strictly true. I know at least a couple of folks from that era who would pilfer a bank account in a heartbeat, given the opportunity (they tended to be active 'carders'). They were, however, treated with disdain by 99% of the 'exploratory' hackers I knew. The catalyst for me getting out of the black hat side (other than aging out of the 'being bad is fun' stage) was getting into a massive system from which I could have easily pilfered millions. Thoughts of everything from "set up Swiss bank account, fill up" to "offer to 'consult' with the company in question to fix the holes" went through my head. In the end, I just said "game over, I won," stopped cracking systems, and put up the Phoenix Project BBS as a center of learning. Which lasted until the Secret Service showed up at my door in 1990...
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  I'm not saying none of them existed, just that isn't what this culture was about. As you said, such types were unwelcome in the community, and I'm pretty sure that isn't what your manifesto was about (but correct me if I'm wrong).
  - loydb 14y ago
    No, you're right. I just don't want to see it painted in a fairy dust of nostalgia. There were some real criminals involved, and I'm sure there were many who nobody ever knew played both sides. There were plenty of guys that were good enough at hiding their True Name that they could have been anyone. Not just random dudes on a bbs, but folks I "knew" with serious technical skills.

rickmb 14y ago

Those waters were murky from the beginning. Always have been, always will be. Also, "illegal" is not a constant, often arbitrary and usually serves only the interests of those that want to maintain the status quo. If curiosity and creativity was constrained by what happens to be illegal at any given time, our society would look a lot different, and not for the better.