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To me, this is one of the founding texts of our sub-culture. No, I didn't know or interact with Aaron Swartz, but his plight reminded me of this manifesto.

by flog 14y ago

lclarkmichalek 14y ago
Really? I think the hacker news community is more focused around node.js than it is around unauthorised access to computer systems. I do agree there is a common theme of the joy of discovery, but I find it hard to cheer on people breaking into computer systems.
- flog 14y ago
  I agree, I also won't support people breaking into computer systems.
  - hobbyhacker 14y ago
    I support them, as long as they do the right thing afterwards and make the owners aware and do not do anything destructive or that violates someone's privacy.
    - TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
      I "break into" computer systems all the time. Since I do not follow the EULA/license agreement for each website, and I send a handshake requesting files over a webserver, I am in violation of federal law for unauthorized computer usage. That's fucking bullshit.
  - lawnchair_larry 14y ago
    Have you ever been to a website that prompted you for your name to make an account or have temporary access, and you put in a fake name? Perhaps some forum that wanted you to register? One of the charges against Aaron was Wire Fraud, because he did just that - entering the name "Gary Host" into a captive portal to register for wifi access. Congratulations, you're a felon too.
- pyvek 14y ago
  Yes, that is true. I think most of the people here do not condone breaking into other people's systems and harming them. Rather the community inspires curiosity and seek of knowledge. But the manifesto is very relevant to the case of Aaron. "We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals." "Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for."
- ynniv 14y ago
  I think the hacker news community is more focused around node.js Ugh, do you have to remind me? The community here is becoming so risk averse I can't fathom how they expect to hack by any definition. The Manifesto was from an era when the hardware you owned was practically a useless toy, and learning about computers almost required sneaking some time. The well off were able to take it more legitimately from their institutions at night, but what about everyone else? And what about systems that even the well off couldn't play with? Jobs was adamant that Apple never would have existed without him and Woz cutting their teeth blue boxing (a crime which sadly in modern times would be labeled terrorism, with extradition from anywhere in the world). How far ahead of the game do you really think you can get when you're asking permission at every step? Just don't be malicious.
  - dphase 14y ago
    How far ahead of the game do you really think you can get when you're asking permission at every step? Just don't be malicious. I wish we could drill this mentality into everyone.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    > The Manifesto was from an era when the hardware you owned was practically a useless toy, I'd argue that's what we're moving towards.
    - ynniv 14y ago
      Hur, indie programmer humor. People who think that are idiots. We live in a time when you can buy a computer the size of your hand that can do real time image analysis on a couple of AA batteries for $40. A couple decades ago that would be a classified munition with the assumption that one would build a better guided missile from it. Just because that computer in your pocket is polished doesn't mean it's a toy. A toy is a remote terminal incapable of executing machine code outside of drawing letters on the screen. Or a computer that only can remember 16,000 numbers at a time (that's not enough enough space for a crappy, unanimated GIF). Remember War Games, when he cracked open the handset of a payphone and made a free call by touching a soda can tab between the microphone and a ground wire? That was the level of technology not so long ago. Try writing your RoR craigslist knockoff using that. Kids these days.
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  You should see what kind of shit disturbing Robert T Morris (the Y Combinator partner) was up to back in the day. If Aaron Swartz was facing 30 years for his curl script in a closet, rtm's hacking would have him on death row today by comparison. His worm was pretty bad ass - way ahead of its time. Taking down a large part of the internet was not a good thing, but obviously the guy had/has a lot to offer society, and not ruining his life with prison was the right call. A lot of us are not that different, either in terms of what we came from, or where we are now.
- godDLL 14y ago
  This is much, much bigger than HN alone.
namank 14y ago
Reminded me too. There is an entire generation of adults that grew up when the internet wasn't as friendly and layered as it is today, when forums and IRC reigned supreme.
- smoyer 14y ago
  Forums and IRC actually made the Internet much friendlier ... The era in which this was written might have let you dial into a BBS and (if you were lucky) participate in usenet.
  - lloeki 14y ago
    For those interested in this timeframe and what it looked like being tracked and caught at that time, one can turn to The Hacker Crackdown by Bruce Sterling, a non-fiction work incredibly reminiscent of the events currently of interest to us. Free (as in beer) in its electronic version ([0], hosted at MIT), and available as paperback on Amazon. [0]: http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html
    - p4bl0 14y ago
      I second this. And if you enjoy The Hacker Crackdown you should also read The Cuckoo's Egg by Cliff Stole, and Do It! by Jerry Rubin, which are also non-fiction. The latter one is only a little related to the hacker subculture since it happens just before it existed but there are strong links between the Yippie movement and the phreaker scene which is the predecessor of the hacker scene. I think that those three are my most favorite books of all time.
      - dphase 14y ago
        The Cuckoo's Egg is an amazing read. You get a very play-by-play account of the story, see an 80s honeypot in action, and if I remember correctly, read about interactions with the still running Chaos Computer Club.
    - smoyer 14y ago

To me, this is one of the founding texts of our sub-culture. No, I didn't know or interact with Aaron Swartz, but his plight reminded me of this manifesto.

by flog 14y ago

To me, this is one of the founding texts of our sub-culture. No, I didn't know or interact with Aaron Swartz, but his plight reminded me of this manifesto.

lclarkmichalek 14y ago

Really? I think the hacker news community is more focused around node.js than it is around unauthorised access to computer systems. I do agree there is a common theme of the joy of discovery, but I find it hard to cheer on people breaking into computer systems.

flog 14y ago
I agree, I also won't support people breaking into computer systems.
- hobbyhacker 14y ago
  I support them, as long as they do the right thing afterwards and make the owners aware and do not do anything destructive or that violates someone's privacy.
  - TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
    I "break into" computer systems all the time. Since I do not follow the EULA/license agreement for each website, and I send a handshake requesting files over a webserver, I am in violation of federal law for unauthorized computer usage. That's fucking bullshit.
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  Have you ever been to a website that prompted you for your name to make an account or have temporary access, and you put in a fake name? Perhaps some forum that wanted you to register? One of the charges against Aaron was Wire Fraud, because he did just that - entering the name "Gary Host" into a captive portal to register for wifi access. Congratulations, you're a felon too.
pyvek 14y ago
Yes, that is true. I think most of the people here do not condone breaking into other people's systems and harming them. Rather the community inspires curiosity and seek of knowledge. But the manifesto is very relevant to the case of Aaron. "We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals." "Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for."
ynniv 14y ago
I think the hacker news community is more focused around node.js Ugh, do you have to remind me? The community here is becoming so risk averse I can't fathom how they expect to hack by any definition. The Manifesto was from an era when the hardware you owned was practically a useless toy, and learning about computers almost required sneaking some time. The well off were able to take it more legitimately from their institutions at night, but what about everyone else? And what about systems that even the well off couldn't play with? Jobs was adamant that Apple never would have existed without him and Woz cutting their teeth blue boxing (a crime which sadly in modern times would be labeled terrorism, with extradition from anywhere in the world). How far ahead of the game do you really think you can get when you're asking permission at every step? Just don't be malicious.
- dphase 14y ago
  How far ahead of the game do you really think you can get when you're asking permission at every step? Just don't be malicious. I wish we could drill this mentality into everyone.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > The Manifesto was from an era when the hardware you owned was practically a useless toy, I'd argue that's what we're moving towards.
  - ynniv 14y ago
    Hur, indie programmer humor. People who think that are idiots. We live in a time when you can buy a computer the size of your hand that can do real time image analysis on a couple of AA batteries for $40. A couple decades ago that would be a classified munition with the assumption that one would build a better guided missile from it. Just because that computer in your pocket is polished doesn't mean it's a toy. A toy is a remote terminal incapable of executing machine code outside of drawing letters on the screen. Or a computer that only can remember 16,000 numbers at a time (that's not enough enough space for a crappy, unanimated GIF). Remember War Games, when he cracked open the handset of a payphone and made a free call by touching a soda can tab between the microphone and a ground wire? That was the level of technology not so long ago. Try writing your RoR craigslist knockoff using that. Kids these days.
lawnchair_larry 14y ago
You should see what kind of shit disturbing Robert T Morris (the Y Combinator partner) was up to back in the day. If Aaron Swartz was facing 30 years for his curl script in a closet, rtm's hacking would have him on death row today by comparison. His worm was pretty bad ass - way ahead of its time. Taking down a large part of the internet was not a good thing, but obviously the guy had/has a lot to offer society, and not ruining his life with prison was the right call. A lot of us are not that different, either in terms of what we came from, or where we are now.
godDLL 14y ago
This is much, much bigger than HN alone.

namank 14y ago

Reminded me too. There is an entire generation of adults that grew up when the internet wasn't as friendly and layered as it is today, when forums and IRC reigned supreme.

smoyer 14y ago
Forums and IRC actually made the Internet much friendlier ... The era in which this was written might have let you dial into a BBS and (if you were lucky) participate in usenet.
- lloeki 14y ago
  For those interested in this timeframe and what it looked like being tracked and caught at that time, one can turn to The Hacker Crackdown by Bruce Sterling, a non-fiction work incredibly reminiscent of the events currently of interest to us. Free (as in beer) in its electronic version ([0], hosted at MIT), and available as paperback on Amazon. [0]: http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html
  - p4bl0 14y ago
    I second this. And if you enjoy The Hacker Crackdown you should also read The Cuckoo's Egg by Cliff Stole, and Do It! by Jerry Rubin, which are also non-fiction. The latter one is only a little related to the hacker subculture since it happens just before it existed but there are strong links between the Yippie movement and the phreaker scene which is the predecessor of the hacker scene. I think that those three are my most favorite books of all time.
    - dphase 14y ago
      The Cuckoo's Egg is an amazing read. You get a very play-by-play account of the story, see an 80s honeypot in action, and if I remember correctly, read about interactions with the still running Chaos Computer Club.
  - smoyer 14y ago