3 ms·

Should read as: "Specialized subset of designers and engineers share skill-base." OP also misses the other side of the coin: design-lead tools like Bootstrap

by polemic 14y ago

Should read as: "Specialized subset of designers and engineers share skill-base." OP also misses the other side of the coin: design-lead tools like Bootstrap have made it much easier for engineers to design great looking apps. It's convergence, not competition.

nbashaw 14y ago
Ha, good point. Although I think what's happening is slightly more important than "specialized subset of designers and engineers share skill-base". I don't think engineers are changing as much or as quickly as web designers are. Bootstrap works for internal tools but if you want to make something consumer-facing it doesn't even come close to being adequate.
- polemic 14y ago
  "Bootstrap works for internal tools but if you want to make something consumer-facing it doesn't even come close to being adequate." Except that it actually is adequate, a lot of the time. Much like your 'designer-as-engineer' code is often adequate. Same coin, different sides.
  - nbashaw 14y ago
    Touché :)
zalew 14y ago
> design-lead tools like Bootstrap have made it much easier for engineers to design great looking apps using a css framework has nothing to do with design, it's an implementation detail. using a preconfigured theme doesn't make it designed (for sure doesn't make it designed well). //edit: reworded it.
- coryl 14y ago
  *Well you edited your text to be more specific, so I edited mine :)
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- polemic 14y ago
  Well, I guess plugging Heroku to Stripe has "nothing to do with" engineering as well. But, for the sake of discussion between rational people, we should bypass excessive pedantry. EDIT: -- I see the comment above was modified to add the emphasis and ", it's an implementation detail..." Please don't fixate on the one example provided. It's a tool that greatly aids design. Starting up a Heroku instance with a CMS isn't engineering either, but that's Not The Point.
  - zalew 14y ago
    yeah, I edited it not to be so vague. me arguing your opinion about programmers <air quote>designing</air quote> <air quote>great looking</air quote> apps is not pedantry nor is it irrational. better tools are there to make you work faster, they don't make you work better.
    - polemic 14y ago
      And me arguing your opinion about designers <air quote>engineering</air quote> <air quote>secure, scalable, easy to maintain</air quote> apps is not pedantry either. But one side of this argument seems to be blind to the obvious parallels.

by polemic 14y ago

nbashaw 14y ago

Ha, good point. Although I think what's happening is slightly more important than "specialized subset of designers and engineers share skill-base". I don't think engineers are changing as much or as quickly as web designers are. Bootstrap works for internal tools but if you want to make something consumer-facing it doesn't even come close to being adequate.

polemic 14y ago
"Bootstrap works for internal tools but if you want to make something consumer-facing it doesn't even come close to being adequate." Except that it actually is adequate, a lot of the time. Much like your 'designer-as-engineer' code is often adequate. Same coin, different sides.
- nbashaw 14y ago
  Touché :)

zalew 14y ago

> design-lead tools like Bootstrap have made it much easier for engineers to design great looking apps using a css framework has nothing to do with design, it's an implementation detail. using a preconfigured theme doesn't make it designed (for sure doesn't make it designed well). //edit: reworded it.

coryl 14y ago
*Well you edited your text to be more specific, so I edited mine :)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
polemic 14y ago
Well, I guess plugging Heroku to Stripe has "nothing to do with" engineering as well. But, for the sake of discussion between rational people, we should bypass excessive pedantry. EDIT: -- I see the comment above was modified to add the emphasis and ", it's an implementation detail..." Please don't fixate on the one example provided. It's a tool that greatly aids design. Starting up a Heroku instance with a CMS isn't engineering either, but that's Not The Point.
- zalew 14y ago
  yeah, I edited it not to be so vague. me arguing your opinion about programmers <air quote>designing</air quote> <air quote>great looking</air quote> apps is not pedantry nor is it irrational. better tools are there to make you work faster, they don't make you work better.
  - polemic 14y ago
    And me arguing your opinion about designers <air quote>engineering</air quote> <air quote>secure, scalable, easy to maintain</air quote> apps is not pedantry either. But one side of this argument seems to be blind to the obvious parallels.