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> A court cannot let someone walk after a crime simply because the law itself is unjust. Incorrect. That's what the power of jury nullification is for. It's be

> A court cannot let someone walk after a crime simply because the law itself is unjust. Incorrect. That's what the power of jury nullification is for. It's been ensconced in Western law for centuries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lilburne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lilburne Aaron only committed a crime worthy of severe punishment if one takes the point of view of the Crown...I mean, of the government.

jacquesm 14y ago
Jury nullification is to all intents and purposes mostly a theoretical thing nowadays.
- dialtone 14y ago
  According to Clay Conrad, author of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Jury-Nullification-The-Evolution-Doctrine/dp/0890897026 http://www.amazon.com/Jury-Nullification-The-Evolution-Doctr... And according to an article that he wrote in 2003[1]: Jury nullification occurs in 3-4% of all criminal trials. Jurors cannot be ordered to convict or punished for acquitting. A jury verdict of Not Guilty is final. [1]: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-as-a-juror/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-...
arrrg 14y ago
That’s not what jury nullification is for – not in the sense you are talking about it. The possibility of jury nullification is an inevitable consequence of how the US justice system is set up. There is no way around it. It’s a property of the system, not a intentionally designed feature. Put another way: For juries to have meaningful power, jury nullification has to be a possibility. I also think it’s illusory to believe that jury nullification is in any kind of way a meaningful escape. It’s a fluke, nothing more.
- dialtone 14y ago
  You are wrong and it is intentionally designed in the system. Why then have the verdict of a jury be final, with impossibility of re-trial, even in the eyes of Congress, if not to defend the Constitutional Right of Jury nullification? From the same article[1] I quoted in another reply: Theophilus Parsons, first Chief Justice of Massachusetts, explained: The people themselves have it in their power to resist usurpation, without an appeal to arms. An act of usurpation is not obligatory; it is not law; and any man may be justified in his resistance. Let him be considered a criminal by the general government, yet only his fellow citizens can convict him; they are his jury, and if they pronounce him innocent, not all the powers of Congress can hurt him; and innocent they certainly will pronounce him, if the supposed law he resisted was an act of usurpation. Or, as Patrick Henry put it: Why do we love this trial by jury? Because it prevents the hand of oppression from cutting you off. This gives me comfort ” that as long as I have existence, my neighbors will protect me. [1]: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-as-a-juror/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-...
  - rprasad 14y ago
    As a former defense attorney, I would have loved it if jury nullification was intentionally designed into the system. Unfortunately, it's not. It's just a great side effect of the right to a trial by jury. In the American legal system, the modification of laws is left to the legislature. A jury can express its displeasure with a law by nullifying, but this has no legal import, since a different jury could easily convict. Thus, the primary method of expressing displeasure in a law...is to express displeasure in a law (by calling your local legislator).
    - Illychnosis 14y ago
      > As a former defense attorney, I would have loved it if jury nullification was intentionally designed into the system. Jury nullification is part of law. Design is the part that dictates that you, as a defense attorney, cannot inform juries of their power. The prosecutors certainly won't. Every American jury has the power* to ignore the law and make their own verdict if they decide that's how justice would be served. Last year, it became part of New Hampshire law to protect the right of the defense to inform juries of their power: http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/29/new-hampshire-adopts-jury-nullification http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/29/new-hampshire-adopts-jury-... *edit: changed "right" to "power"
- btilly 14y ago
  It’s a property of the system, not a intentionally designed feature. It was not intentionally designed into common law, but when the Constitution specified when trial by jury should be used, it was widely understood that this was the power that juries had. And this was approved of by the founding fathers. For instance Thomas Jefferson said, "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Therefore jury nullification may be an accidental property of common law, but it is NOT an accidental property of the US system of law.

jacquesm 14y ago

Jury nullification is to all intents and purposes mostly a theoretical thing nowadays.

dialtone 14y ago
According to Clay Conrad, author of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Jury-Nullification-The-Evolution-Doctrine/dp/0890897026 http://www.amazon.com/Jury-Nullification-The-Evolution-Doctr... And according to an article that he wrote in 2003[1]: Jury nullification occurs in 3-4% of all criminal trials. Jurors cannot be ordered to convict or punished for acquitting. A jury verdict of Not Guilty is final. [1]: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-as-a-juror/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-...

arrrg 14y ago

That’s not what jury nullification is for – not in the sense you are talking about it. The possibility of jury nullification is an inevitable consequence of how the US justice system is set up. There is no way around it. It’s a property of the system, not a intentionally designed feature. Put another way: For juries to have meaningful power, jury nullification has to be a possibility. I also think it’s illusory to believe that jury nullification is in any kind of way a meaningful escape. It’s a fluke, nothing more.

dialtone 14y ago
You are wrong and it is intentionally designed in the system. Why then have the verdict of a jury be final, with impossibility of re-trial, even in the eyes of Congress, if not to defend the Constitutional Right of Jury nullification? From the same article[1] I quoted in another reply: Theophilus Parsons, first Chief Justice of Massachusetts, explained: The people themselves have it in their power to resist usurpation, without an appeal to arms. An act of usurpation is not obligatory; it is not law; and any man may be justified in his resistance. Let him be considered a criminal by the general government, yet only his fellow citizens can convict him; they are his jury, and if they pronounce him innocent, not all the powers of Congress can hurt him; and innocent they certainly will pronounce him, if the supposed law he resisted was an act of usurpation. Or, as Patrick Henry put it: Why do we love this trial by jury? Because it prevents the hand of oppression from cutting you off. This gives me comfort ” that as long as I have existence, my neighbors will protect me. [1]: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-as-a-juror/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/05/a-guide-to-surviving-...
- rprasad 14y ago
  As a former defense attorney, I would have loved it if jury nullification was intentionally designed into the system. Unfortunately, it's not. It's just a great side effect of the right to a trial by jury. In the American legal system, the modification of laws is left to the legislature. A jury can express its displeasure with a law by nullifying, but this has no legal import, since a different jury could easily convict. Thus, the primary method of expressing displeasure in a law...is to express displeasure in a law (by calling your local legislator).
  - Illychnosis 14y ago
    > As a former defense attorney, I would have loved it if jury nullification was intentionally designed into the system. Jury nullification is part of law. Design is the part that dictates that you, as a defense attorney, cannot inform juries of their power. The prosecutors certainly won't. Every American jury has the power* to ignore the law and make their own verdict if they decide that's how justice would be served. Last year, it became part of New Hampshire law to protect the right of the defense to inform juries of their power: http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/29/new-hampshire-adopts-jury-nullification http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/29/new-hampshire-adopts-jury-... *edit: changed "right" to "power"
btilly 14y ago
It’s a property of the system, not a intentionally designed feature. It was not intentionally designed into common law, but when the Constitution specified when trial by jury should be used, it was widely understood that this was the power that juries had. And this was approved of by the founding fathers. For instance Thomas Jefferson said, "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Therefore jury nullification may be an accidental property of common law, but it is NOT an accidental property of the US system of law.