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At root this is a philosophical problem. The professional philosophers have created a disarray in the field of values, claiming that they are subjective and arb
by wissler 14y ago
At root this is a philosophical problem. The professional philosophers have created a disarray in the field of values, claiming that they are subjective and arbitrary, and that's resulted in the inability of people to rally around common, objective values of right and wrong. And when you say something like this, you generally just get what these philosophers have said repeated back to you, and some weak-kneed alternative to saying "this is right, that is wrong", which is precisely why we are where we are.
- michaelfeathers 14y agoNo offense, but I think I'll listen to systems thinkers and legal experts rather than philosophers for a little while.
- wissler 14y agoAnd this is different from the status quo how? How does running to the same group of "experts" who have engineered our social systems help? Note how conditioned the response is: you see a problem with the system, you're conditioned to trust in the system (and its approved representatives) to give you answers. You're part of the problem of course. You and everyone like you. By rejecting philosophy you reject ethics and therefore any possible means of addressing these systematic problems.
- wissler 14y agoI am of course in the minority, but it's not the minority who's created these major systemic problems. We try to point them out and are ignored (and here, downvoted), and you bumbling fools keep doing things that wreck civilization. Inadvertently of course. But good intentions count for zero, you still bear partial responsibility for widespread injustice.
- Yaa101 14y agoThe problem lies in Democracy, it is not for nothing that it is called the least worst ruling system. The difference between most democracies and dictatorships is that a dictatorship is despotism by minority and most democracies despotism by majority, not often are democracies systems of fairness.
- wissler 14y agoNo, it's not with democracy, it's with the values of the populace. If you have a predominately good people, then many political systems can work; if you have a predominately duped and corrupt people, no system can work.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoIf you think that the problem with the U.S. is that everyone is hopelessly enamored with Rorty or other postmodernists, then, I think maybe you are out of touch with "reality" just a little bit. :) I don't think the NRA is going to start quoting Derrida any time soon.
- wissler 14y agoNo, I don't think that. If you think that I do based on so little evidence, then you're clearly out of touch with reality, a lot.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoBut you're not making any sense.
- wissler 14y agoTo you. Ergo you ask questions, you don't insert your premises where you fail to comprehend mine.
- _delirium 14y agoIs that actually, causally, the reason for the U.S.'s rather harsh justice system? I mean, postmodernism is not exactly popular in the US. Are law-and-order populist politicians pushing "tough on crime" agendas and long sentences all secretly fans of French philosophers? If anything, the problem is that they are too sure of their own values, and willing to enforce them with imprisonment.
- wissler 14y agoIt's uncertainty about the right values that permits the false ones to prevail.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- DavidSJ 14y agoCertainty about the wrong values has caused its share of bad values prevailing.
- wissler 14y agoSo? You can't claim certainty is per se evil without lapsing into hypocritical contradiction. Those who zealously preach anti-certainty are hypocrites, intrinsically.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoOK, so relativism has self-referential problems. Fine. But what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
- wissler 14y agoI was responding to the OP, he'll have to answer my "so", I have no idea what his point was.
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoWhat are you talking about? I have training in philosophy but I have no idea what you're talking about; I'm not sure what professional philosophers have to do with this situation at all.
- wissler 14y agoWhat an ironic question. What do you think the rational purpose of philosophy is?
- dinkumthinkum 14y agoSo you're serious? You think the US laws were written by postmodernists and that most US citizens are relativists? Really? This seems like a weird version of a tin foil hat conspiracy theory.
- wissler 14y agoSo, you're a philosophy buff, but you can't help yourself regarding ignorant presumption about another person's thoughts. I don't think philosophy has taught you much about being careful with ideas. That too is ironic. I shouldn't have to disclaim your ignorant presumptions every time you open your ignorant, presumptuous mouth. Also, I asked you a basic question. I asked you what the purpose of philosophy was. Why are you evading the question?