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Maybe it's because I love life so much that I don't think I would choose suicide over prison. Even if you get sent to prison, that doesn't mean you will be ther

Maybe it's because I love life so much that I don't think I would choose suicide over prison. Even if you get sent to prison, that doesn't mean you will be there your entire life. You can still appeal, work towards getting out faster. You can still educate yourself in prison, stay active. In other words, instead of laying down/giving up/killing myself, I would like to think I would fight my oppressors and protect my rights to be alive and happy by whatever means necessary. Someone mentioned victim-blaming, and perhaps this has transformed into a discussion of suicide "victims" in general rather than Swartzs specific case. I mean no disrespect to the memory of Aaron Swartz, but I do feel compelled to say that given the choice of (a) killing yourself or (b) not killing yourself, one of these choices illuminate your personal fortitude and character.

_delirium 14y ago
I can see that argument, but I guess I just don't think I'd personally make that decision in the case of lengthy imprisonment. It's probably a laudable one, but my interest in not spending decades in a claustrophobic situation without freedom, subject to what seem like fairly frightening possibilities (high prevalence of prison rape, etc.) would likely outweigh my desire to live an inspiring life as a prison activist. I think the fact that you can't change your mind later is what frightens me about it in particular. If, a few years in, it's so horrible that I really would rather be dead, it's too late to do anything about it at that point; once you go in, there really is no escape. In just about any other case I would agree with your assessment of the choice, though. Most seemingly hopeless situations are really not hopeless.
- flipper28 14y ago
  The idea of a long prison sentence is certainly a frightening thought. Weighing that against the idea of not existing and never existing again. There are very few situations I can imagine where death would be preferable than enduring. Being tortured with no chance for escape comes to mind and I can imagine I would welcome death to escape the agony. Perhaps personally I am angry at Aaron for giving up, and this makes me selfish. I guess I can understand people wanting to find someone to blame, because putting the blame on someone you love, in this case Aaron, is a lot harder. We would rather sympathize with his situation and forgive him for his actions. He was only human after all.
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- gojomo 14y ago
  Remember, studies show that even people not suffering from depression significantly overestimate how much specific severe future events will affect their life satisfaction, good or bad. (Winning a lottery, losing a limb, achieving a life goal, being imprisoned, etc.) It'd be a shame to take an irreversible final step, because of a relatively simple and well-understood short-term bias.
anatoli 14y ago
This seems like a very ignorant post that completely overlooks the realities of suffering from depression (and other mental disorders). Stating that you 'love life so much' just goes to highlight how little you seem to understand what you speak of and how little you've bothered to inform yourself.
gottagetmac 14y ago
anatoli, I think flipper28 was responding to _delirium's statement that suicide would be a "rational decision" for him/her in this situation based on a calculation of utilities. This is, as we know, not the usual way that people determine to commit suicide.
rhizome 14y ago
Have you ever been in jail? It is a form of living death, and intentionally so.

_delirium 14y ago

I can see that argument, but I guess I just don't think I'd personally make that decision in the case of lengthy imprisonment. It's probably a laudable one, but my interest in not spending decades in a claustrophobic situation without freedom, subject to what seem like fairly frightening possibilities (high prevalence of prison rape, etc.) would likely outweigh my desire to live an inspiring life as a prison activist. I think the fact that you can't change your mind later is what frightens me about it in particular. If, a few years in, it's so horrible that I really would rather be dead, it's too late to do anything about it at that point; once you go in, there really is no escape. In just about any other case I would agree with your assessment of the choice, though. Most seemingly hopeless situations are really not hopeless.

flipper28 14y ago
The idea of a long prison sentence is certainly a frightening thought. Weighing that against the idea of not existing and never existing again. There are very few situations I can imagine where death would be preferable than enduring. Being tortured with no chance for escape comes to mind and I can imagine I would welcome death to escape the agony. Perhaps personally I am angry at Aaron for giving up, and this makes me selfish. I guess I can understand people wanting to find someone to blame, because putting the blame on someone you love, in this case Aaron, is a lot harder. We would rather sympathize with his situation and forgive him for his actions. He was only human after all.
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gojomo 14y ago
Remember, studies show that even people not suffering from depression significantly overestimate how much specific severe future events will affect their life satisfaction, good or bad. (Winning a lottery, losing a limb, achieving a life goal, being imprisoned, etc.) It'd be a shame to take an irreversible final step, because of a relatively simple and well-understood short-term bias.

anatoli 14y ago

This seems like a very ignorant post that completely overlooks the realities of suffering from depression (and other mental disorders). Stating that you 'love life so much' just goes to highlight how little you seem to understand what you speak of and how little you've bothered to inform yourself.

gottagetmac 14y ago

anatoli, I think flipper28 was responding to _delirium's statement that suicide would be a "rational decision" for him/her in this situation based on a calculation of utilities. This is, as we know, not the usual way that people determine to commit suicide.

rhizome 14y ago

Have you ever been in jail? It is a form of living death, and intentionally so.