5 ms·

Accused of a crime thought so horrific it warrants 30 years in prison, I doubt that. The US has grabbed people on the other side of the world for lesser charges

by genwin 14y ago

Accused of a crime thought so horrific it warrants 30 years in prison, I doubt that. The US has grabbed people on the other side of the world for lesser charges.

rdl 14y ago
This was prosecutorial overreach. It was probably not in their short list of major issues, and thus I don't think they would have devoted huge resources to it. Which makes this whole thing even sadder. It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. Even though worst case he was facing 50 years, it would have almost certainly been far less. But I am sure he was depressed and so involved in it that he wasn't thinking about it rationally.
- genwin 14y ago
  > It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. That is possible. But what life would he have then, with $1.5 million of debt? If not for my kids I'd probably jump off a cliff myself than work a lifetime paying that off.
  - rdl 14y ago
    I think he had some assets from Reddit, as well as some of the work being pro bono, and contributions. Killing yourself over $1.5mm in debt is not rational. You can default on it and go bankrupt and be back to normal in 7-10 years. You can get most of it written off. You can do consulting for 5-10 years and live slightly frugally and probably pay enough of it off to have the rest written off. You can start 1/1000th of a kind-of-shitty photo sharing site. You can flee to China, start over, and no one will pursue you. They basically don't expect you to put 100% of your income toward fines, back taxes, etc. even if it's to the Government (and hence can't be discharged in bankruptcy). In that case, you just live on 25-50k post-tax and either hide a bunch of cash income while making small payments, or find benefactors who cover most of your costs and work on free software or something. We essentially ended debtors prisons a long time ago. 35 years in federal prison might actually be a case for killing yourself (although I'd just read a lot of books and be the hacker Mumia Abu-Jamal, and hopefully get out on appeal).
    - ericd 14y ago
      Based on what you've written, I think you'd handle getting charged with a crime a lot better than I would.
      - rdl 14y ago
        If it's a purely economic or "political" crime, I think it's a lot easier to deal with. I mean, even if you accept that Aaron did all these things and that they were crimes, there's nothing morally repugnant about it. The worse thing is if you're accused of a morally repugnant crime. Say, rape, or child molestation, or maybe some kind of betrayal of trust (like embezzling), or even not a crime but something like snitching on a close friend over an immoral law and sending Anne Frank to the Nazis. Then, there's both all the moral scorn from other people and from yourself -- just the accusation is hurtful, even if you know at some level it's false.
    - LnxPrgr3 14y ago
      Depression isn't rational. I can't say I've been depressed—I'm not qualified to diagnose that. I can say I've felt so hopeless I've made an attempt on my own life. Thankfully, it was a pretty lame attempt (after a lot of alcohol) that I aborted, leaving only a ring around my neck as evidence. I failed to even send myself to the hospital. It's more than hopelessness. Life felt like an unbearable burden, a source of pain that would never end… until I ended it. My life wasn't actually hopeless. My problems weren't as bad as they seemed—literally the day after this began the best two or three years of my adult life. Had I been more competent, or maybe just more committed, I wouldn't have been around for that to happen. And there's no way you could've talked me into believing I'd appreciate living to see tomorrow—the very problem was I believed my life would be more of the same until I died, and I welcomed death over what I thought life had in store for me. This story cuts deep for me because I survived and this man who's contributed so much more to society than I have didn't make it. It also cuts deep because I fear going back to that place, and seeing another man fall makes me fear a little for my own life. I've done my research since: if I try again, I'm convinced I'll succeed. I'm among the most rational people I know. My own family thinks I'm just about incapable of emotion. Yet I've struggled with this. People aren't rational. Not even the rational ones.

by genwin 14y ago

Accused of a crime thought so horrific it warrants 30 years in prison, I doubt that. The US has grabbed people on the other side of the world for lesser charges.

rdl 14y ago

This was prosecutorial overreach. It was probably not in their short list of major issues, and thus I don't think they would have devoted huge resources to it. Which makes this whole thing even sadder. It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. Even though worst case he was facing 50 years, it would have almost certainly been far less. But I am sure he was depressed and so involved in it that he wasn't thinking about it rationally.

genwin 14y ago
> It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. That is possible. But what life would he have then, with $1.5 million of debt? If not for my kids I'd probably jump off a cliff myself than work a lifetime paying that off.
- rdl 14y ago
  I think he had some assets from Reddit, as well as some of the work being pro bono, and contributions. Killing yourself over $1.5mm in debt is not rational. You can default on it and go bankrupt and be back to normal in 7-10 years. You can get most of it written off. You can do consulting for 5-10 years and live slightly frugally and probably pay enough of it off to have the rest written off. You can start 1/1000th of a kind-of-shitty photo sharing site. You can flee to China, start over, and no one will pursue you. They basically don't expect you to put 100% of your income toward fines, back taxes, etc. even if it's to the Government (and hence can't be discharged in bankruptcy). In that case, you just live on 25-50k post-tax and either hide a bunch of cash income while making small payments, or find benefactors who cover most of your costs and work on free software or something. We essentially ended debtors prisons a long time ago. 35 years in federal prison might actually be a case for killing yourself (although I'd just read a lot of books and be the hacker Mumia Abu-Jamal, and hopefully get out on appeal).
  - ericd 14y ago
    Based on what you've written, I think you'd handle getting charged with a crime a lot better than I would.
    - rdl 14y ago
      If it's a purely economic or "political" crime, I think it's a lot easier to deal with. I mean, even if you accept that Aaron did all these things and that they were crimes, there's nothing morally repugnant about it. The worse thing is if you're accused of a morally repugnant crime. Say, rape, or child molestation, or maybe some kind of betrayal of trust (like embezzling), or even not a crime but something like snitching on a close friend over an immoral law and sending Anne Frank to the Nazis. Then, there's both all the moral scorn from other people and from yourself -- just the accusation is hurtful, even if you know at some level it's false.
  - LnxPrgr3 14y ago
    Depression isn't rational. I can't say I've been depressed—I'm not qualified to diagnose that. I can say I've felt so hopeless I've made an attempt on my own life. Thankfully, it was a pretty lame attempt (after a lot of alcohol) that I aborted, leaving only a ring around my neck as evidence. I failed to even send myself to the hospital. It's more than hopelessness. Life felt like an unbearable burden, a source of pain that would never end… until I ended it. My life wasn't actually hopeless. My problems weren't as bad as they seemed—literally the day after this began the best two or three years of my adult life. Had I been more competent, or maybe just more committed, I wouldn't have been around for that to happen. And there's no way you could've talked me into believing I'd appreciate living to see tomorrow—the very problem was I believed my life would be more of the same until I died, and I welcomed death over what I thought life had in store for me. This story cuts deep for me because I survived and this man who's contributed so much more to society than I have didn't make it. It also cuts deep because I fear going back to that place, and seeing another man fall makes me fear a little for my own life. I've done my research since: if I try again, I'm convinced I'll succeed. I'm among the most rational people I know. My own family thinks I'm just about incapable of emotion. Yet I've struggled with this. People aren't rational. Not even the rational ones.