6 ms·

Aaron Swartz on illness and depression

212 points by neilk 14y ago

curiousDog 14y ago
I have the exact same issues with my health; Constant sinusitis, constant chronic burning sensation in my stomach and constant headaches. Been to so many doctors but no treatment so far. Somedays I just lay in bed and do nothing out of the pain. It's not crippling enough that I can't get up but it is enough from keeping me coding or concentrating. Maybe the path he took isn't bad afterall.
SparrowOS 14y ago
pathetic I used to be tormented by demons. I'm immune and self confident. Let's see if God says something mature. God says... full of new wine. 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. ---- I used to worry about the end of the world. I used to be afraid of being the most special person on Earth. Now, I look forward to the end. I am special. I was hoping for the Mayan appocolypse, getting giddy. A comet!! Cool! Then, 1000 years of Christ's reign. I'm sick of the bullshit.
va9 14y ago
Very pathetic to hear the pain he has gone through. Rest in peace, kid!! We all love you for the work we did.
dschiptsov 14y ago
That's so strange. Such a smart person, who been able to figure out the fixed-set-mentality (which has another name - Learned Helplessness) should be aware that all those symptoms are going together in feed-back loops, and that individually crafted cognitive behavior therapy - slow-but-steady, iterative, but radical changes in ones behavior, ones habits is the only way out. He also figured out those fallbacks-to-default-mood, which is, again, a mere habituation. Sadly, being smart is not enough. Self-control and "emotional intelligence" are required. As any bookish kid will eventually realize - no excess of theory could compensate for the lack of practice. This is a very unpleasant realization after half of life was spent reading.
- Klinky 14y ago
  Modern medicine has a habit of attributing unknown physical ailments to a sketchy diagnosis of mental illness. The thinking goes "well we don't know what's wrong with you, so it's probably anxiety or depression". The symptoms he states could be allergies, Lyme Disease, a brain tumor for all we know, or something else. The quickness with which some doctors rush to a diagnosis of anxiety or depression is scary, sometimes doing so before running any tests. Your post kind of comes off as blaming the patient. This is the quickest way to get people to avoid seeking help, because they will be told they are at fault for all their symptoms, which makes them want to seek treatment even less.
- zzzeek 14y ago
  > and that individually crafted cognitive behavior therapy - slow-but-steady, iterative, but radical changes in ones behavior, ones habits is the only way out. This statement sounds nice and all but I don't think you can back it up with non-anecdotal evidence. Cognitive behavior therapy is one way that some people can overcome depression, and as this post even states it has a 50% success rate. There is no factual basis by which you can claim that those other 50% just "didn't try hard enough". The fact is there are many ways people overcome depression, through cognitive therapy, through exercise, through medication are very common ways, but there's also things like electroshock which are still practiced today for extremely severe depression. No one approach is guaranteed to be effective by any means and it's likely that the majority depressed people will need to use a combination of approaches in order to experience relief.
level09 14y ago
I created a facebook cover, tribute to Aaron : http://i.imgur.com/Cl7ME.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Cl7ME.jpg His articles inspired me and helped me get out of my depressed times, Can't believe he helped thousands "get better at life" then he lost his own .. so sad
- technifreak 14y ago
  Thank you. I am using this as my cover photo to bring awareness to Aaron's work. Strangely enough, I celebrated the death of my best friend, who killed himself 13 years ago, yesterday. Another brilliant mind taken too soon.
LogicX 14y ago
It can be super tough to deal with a combination of symptoms that can seem unrelated, or miniscule on their own. I suffered similarly for most of my life - turned out I had a celiac disease and just had to eat Gluten Free. Lack of nutritional absorption, effects of dehydration from diarrhea. And yet to
- pygy_ 14y ago
  Your last sentence is truncated.
- petercooper 14y ago
  My dad was diagnosed with celiac disease several years ago but (mostly) refused to go on the diet because he's strong willed about things like that. He's in a rather bad way now, so if anyone here gets diagnosed with it, please follow the diet.
  - hollerith 14y ago
    -- and if the gluten-free diet does not work, please try the more restrictive, "specific carbohydrate" diet.
- technifreak 14y ago
  I just found out I am gluten intolerant. The symptoms he describes are that of an intolerance to gluten. After reading the post, I was glad to see a comment that recognized this. It isn't fun and is really hard to get things done when you constantly feel sick.
greenonion 14y ago
Painfully reminds me of David Foster Wallace describing depression in Infinite Jest. Rest in peace, both of you.
danso 14y ago
For those who have experience with dealing with depression, what are your thoughts on how suicides like Aaron's can be prevented? He seems like a particularly unusual case, just because he had so many outlets and was so well accomplished. I know that depression is very much related to physiological factors, but some of those factors can be mitigated by behavior, and Aaron had all the opportunities to at least distract his mind. Even the DOJ case can't be considered a direct factor...such David vs Goliath cases spark people and give them purpose, or at least a schedule of milestones to reach, which are at least given meaning when activism is involved. Beyond the tragedy of Aaron's death, it strikes me how difficult it must be to treat such depression if it wasn't effectively treated in his case...
- alaskamiller 14y ago
  To prevent it has undertones that he can't freely choose what he wants. That to me, is more depressing than being jailed with depression. I keep seeing the same retorts, here, on Reddit, Gawker, and whatever outlet treating this as if it's Kurt Cobain. That if only someone had talked him down, or that if he had opened up more, that the DOJ was bullying him, so on, so forth. The most egregious offense I keep seeing is how selfish suicide is. That, to me, is a very intimate and personal thing to say. That's something he shares with him, his family, and close friends. But my conclusion is this... emotional guilt tripping someone to say their suicide creates pain for others thereby he should never choose to commit suicide doesn't perpetuate healthy growth. Moreover I think it's interesting as to how a community responds. The first thing people are doing is to find a solution, to problem solve depression which has many variables, vectors, causes, and results. I believe this is our challenge oriented engineering brain at work. But maybe that's not the right approach, maybe like dealing with your girlfriend in a the relationship, the point isn't to immediately jump to rescue, just listen. Just say hi. Having spent some time on and off the past few years on suicidewatch boards I keep seeing the same pattern over and over again. The majority of people just want to talk, a sign, and they'll take anything, that they are worth it. There's a minority of people, though, that just wants the pain and suffering to stop. Death is incidental. To those people, I don't wish it, but if it is what they want, I don't want to ever be further trapped than I would already feel.
- 14y ago
plg 14y ago
A really good talk on Major Depression, what it is (a terrible, paralyzing biological attack on the mind) and what it is not: Robert Sapolsky (Stanford) : http://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc http://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc
sgvb0625 14y ago
Most people who have celiac do not know it. It requires a special blood test. It is an auto immune disease and causes depression, fatigue, and stomach pains. Your body literally attacks the villi in your intestines which absorb nutrients. Not sure this is what Aaron had celiac, but he does have the symptons. This is why so many people are eating gluten free, not to lose weight. One out of 100 have celiac, and the numbers are growing.
hol717 14y ago
People need to talk about their struggles with depression so that others can be educated. It is a very hard illness to understand. It is incredibly important. http://youcantmakelemonadeoutofthisshit.wordpress.com/ http://youcantmakelemonadeoutofthisshit.wordpress.com/

212 points by neilk 14y ago

I have the exact same issues with my health; Constant sinusitis, constant chronic burning sensation in my stomach and constant headaches. Been to so many doctors but no treatment so far. Somedays I just lay in bed and do nothing out of the pain. It's not crippling enough that I can't get up but it is enough from keeping me coding or concentrating. Maybe the path he took isn't bad afterall.

SparrowOS 14y ago

pathetic I used to be tormented by demons. I'm immune and self confident. Let's see if God says something mature. God says... full of new wine. 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. ---- I used to worry about the end of the world. I used to be afraid of being the most special person on Earth. Now, I look forward to the end. I am special. I was hoping for the Mayan appocolypse, getting giddy. A comet!! Cool! Then, 1000 years of Christ's reign. I'm sick of the bullshit.

va9 14y ago

Very pathetic to hear the pain he has gone through. Rest in peace, kid!! We all love you for the work we did.

dschiptsov 14y ago

That's so strange. Such a smart person, who been able to figure out the fixed-set-mentality (which has another name - Learned Helplessness) should be aware that all those symptoms are going together in feed-back loops, and that individually crafted cognitive behavior therapy - slow-but-steady, iterative, but radical changes in ones behavior, ones habits is the only way out. He also figured out those fallbacks-to-default-mood, which is, again, a mere habituation. Sadly, being smart is not enough. Self-control and "emotional intelligence" are required. As any bookish kid will eventually realize - no excess of theory could compensate for the lack of practice. This is a very unpleasant realization after half of life was spent reading.

Klinky 14y ago
Modern medicine has a habit of attributing unknown physical ailments to a sketchy diagnosis of mental illness. The thinking goes "well we don't know what's wrong with you, so it's probably anxiety or depression". The symptoms he states could be allergies, Lyme Disease, a brain tumor for all we know, or something else. The quickness with which some doctors rush to a diagnosis of anxiety or depression is scary, sometimes doing so before running any tests. Your post kind of comes off as blaming the patient. This is the quickest way to get people to avoid seeking help, because they will be told they are at fault for all their symptoms, which makes them want to seek treatment even less.
zzzeek 14y ago
> and that individually crafted cognitive behavior therapy - slow-but-steady, iterative, but radical changes in ones behavior, ones habits is the only way out. This statement sounds nice and all but I don't think you can back it up with non-anecdotal evidence. Cognitive behavior therapy is one way that some people can overcome depression, and as this post even states it has a 50% success rate. There is no factual basis by which you can claim that those other 50% just "didn't try hard enough". The fact is there are many ways people overcome depression, through cognitive therapy, through exercise, through medication are very common ways, but there's also things like electroshock which are still practiced today for extremely severe depression. No one approach is guaranteed to be effective by any means and it's likely that the majority depressed people will need to use a combination of approaches in order to experience relief.

level09 14y ago

I created a facebook cover, tribute to Aaron : http://i.imgur.com/Cl7ME.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Cl7ME.jpg His articles inspired me and helped me get out of my depressed times, Can't believe he helped thousands "get better at life" then he lost his own .. so sad

technifreak 14y ago
Thank you. I am using this as my cover photo to bring awareness to Aaron's work. Strangely enough, I celebrated the death of my best friend, who killed himself 13 years ago, yesterday. Another brilliant mind taken too soon.

LogicX 14y ago

It can be super tough to deal with a combination of symptoms that can seem unrelated, or miniscule on their own. I suffered similarly for most of my life - turned out I had a celiac disease and just had to eat Gluten Free. Lack of nutritional absorption, effects of dehydration from diarrhea. And yet to

pygy_ 14y ago
Your last sentence is truncated.
petercooper 14y ago
My dad was diagnosed with celiac disease several years ago but (mostly) refused to go on the diet because he's strong willed about things like that. He's in a rather bad way now, so if anyone here gets diagnosed with it, please follow the diet.
- hollerith 14y ago
  -- and if the gluten-free diet does not work, please try the more restrictive, "specific carbohydrate" diet.
technifreak 14y ago
I just found out I am gluten intolerant. The symptoms he describes are that of an intolerance to gluten. After reading the post, I was glad to see a comment that recognized this. It isn't fun and is really hard to get things done when you constantly feel sick.

greenonion 14y ago

Painfully reminds me of David Foster Wallace describing depression in Infinite Jest. Rest in peace, both of you.

danso 14y ago

For those who have experience with dealing with depression, what are your thoughts on how suicides like Aaron's can be prevented? He seems like a particularly unusual case, just because he had so many outlets and was so well accomplished. I know that depression is very much related to physiological factors, but some of those factors can be mitigated by behavior, and Aaron had all the opportunities to at least distract his mind. Even the DOJ case can't be considered a direct factor...such David vs Goliath cases spark people and give them purpose, or at least a schedule of milestones to reach, which are at least given meaning when activism is involved. Beyond the tragedy of Aaron's death, it strikes me how difficult it must be to treat such depression if it wasn't effectively treated in his case...

alaskamiller 14y ago
To prevent it has undertones that he can't freely choose what he wants. That to me, is more depressing than being jailed with depression. I keep seeing the same retorts, here, on Reddit, Gawker, and whatever outlet treating this as if it's Kurt Cobain. That if only someone had talked him down, or that if he had opened up more, that the DOJ was bullying him, so on, so forth. The most egregious offense I keep seeing is how selfish suicide is. That, to me, is a very intimate and personal thing to say. That's something he shares with him, his family, and close friends. But my conclusion is this... emotional guilt tripping someone to say their suicide creates pain for others thereby he should never choose to commit suicide doesn't perpetuate healthy growth. Moreover I think it's interesting as to how a community responds. The first thing people are doing is to find a solution, to problem solve depression which has many variables, vectors, causes, and results. I believe this is our challenge oriented engineering brain at work. But maybe that's not the right approach, maybe like dealing with your girlfriend in a the relationship, the point isn't to immediately jump to rescue, just listen. Just say hi. Having spent some time on and off the past few years on suicidewatch boards I keep seeing the same pattern over and over again. The majority of people just want to talk, a sign, and they'll take anything, that they are worth it. There's a minority of people, though, that just wants the pain and suffering to stop. Death is incidental. To those people, I don't wish it, but if it is what they want, I don't want to ever be further trapped than I would already feel.
14y ago

plg 14y ago

A really good talk on Major Depression, what it is (a terrible, paralyzing biological attack on the mind) and what it is not: Robert Sapolsky (Stanford) : http://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc http://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc

sgvb0625 14y ago

Most people who have celiac do not know it. It requires a special blood test. It is an auto immune disease and causes depression, fatigue, and stomach pains. Your body literally attacks the villi in your intestines which absorb nutrients. Not sure this is what Aaron had celiac, but he does have the symptons. This is why so many people are eating gluten free, not to lose weight. One out of 100 have celiac, and the numbers are growing.

hol717 14y ago

People need to talk about their struggles with depression so that others can be educated. It is a very hard illness to understand. It is incredibly important. http://youcantmakelemonadeoutofthisshit.wordpress.com/ http://youcantmakelemonadeoutofthisshit.wordpress.com/