6 ms·

It really rubs me the wrong way when something like this happens and folks jump to conclusions as you have here. You didn't know this person. For all we know he

by wheels 14y ago

It really rubs me the wrong way when something like this happens and folks jump to conclusions as you have here. You didn't know this person. For all we know he could have not given two shits about the whole legal process and this is linked to family or relationship problems or long term general depression.

jacquesm 14y ago
> You didn't know this person. That's an assumption on your part. And this was in response to people jumping to completely different conclusions, for instance that these things are not related at all. I wouldn't be so quick to make that call. Maybe you feel like arguing this line with his mom? : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047398 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047398
- wheels 14y ago
  To be clear -- I'm totally fine with people who knew Aaron well commenting on these matters. I did in fact assume that was not the case and apologize if I was wrong there. I guess my rub is two-fold: - The visible portion of public figures lives is only a fraction of the complete picture, and extrapolating from that visible portion rubs me the wrong way. - These things are complex. As another commenter noted, suicide rarely has a single reason. (And I think we put labels on these things mostly for ourselves; it's easier to cope when there's an label to pin onto a tragedy.)
- hyperbovine 14y ago
  > That's an assumption on your part. Are you assuming that, or...?
- larrys 14y ago
  "Maybe you feel like arguing this line with his mom?" How do you know the person who setup that account and posted that is actually his mom?
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    I don't. How do you know she isn't? Until I have evidence to the contrary I tend to believe what people say.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - larrys 14y ago
      "How do you know she isn't?" I questioned what you said I didn't (when I asked you) state that the poster wasn't his mother. I don't know that she is or isn't. That said I will now say that I feel that it's highly unlikely that a mother who has lost her son to suicide is going to open up a HN account [1] and post something when a loss like this happens. Of course if a HN admin has access to IP addresses or where and how the account was setup or some other non public information that's something else. [1] Adding: so quickly after the loss
      - Alex3917 14y ago
        He worked on Reddit, which is very similar to HN. It's not that unlikely.
      - jacquesm 14y ago
        I hope you can restrain yourself and that you won't be asking for their passports and birth certificates: http://rememberaaronsw.tumblr.com/post/40372208044/official-statement-from-the-family-and-partner-of-aaron http://rememberaaronsw.tumblr.com/post/40372208044/official-...
jfoster 14y ago
Even if the assumption were wrong in this particular case, it is a worthwhile discussion to have. Intelligent people doing something relatively harmless being threatened with the possibility of decades in prison means something is very wrong.
rmc 14y ago
Here here. Charities that work with people struggling with suicide and mental health problems consistently ask the media to not attribute a suicide to one particular cause. Often things are more complicated than that.
- vmialik 14y ago
  Agreed. But do want to say being a HN community its good to observe/"hack" his life and learn from this. As one big question arises: Was his death to make a statement, give up, or escape this life. Food for thought: Reddit life: "I was miserable. I couldn't stand San Francisco. I couldn't stand office life. I couldn't stand Wired. I took a long Christmas vacation. I got sick. I thought of suicide. I ran from the police. And when I got back on Monday morning, I was asked to resign." "I followed these rules. And here I am today, with a dozen projects on my plate and my stress level through the roof once again." "Every morning I wake up and check my email to see which one of my projects has imploded today, which deadlines I'm behind on, which talks I need to write, and which articles I need to edit." -https://aaronsw.jottit.com/howtoget https://aaronsw.jottit.com/howtoget Post Reddit Era: "The post-Reddit era in Aaron's life was really his coming of age. His stunts were breathtaking. At one point, he singlehandedly liberated 20 percent of US law. PACER, the system that gives Americans access to their own (public domain) case-law, charged a fee for each such access. After activists built RECAP (which allowed its users to put any caselaw they paid for into a free/public repository), Aaron spent a small fortune fetching a titanic amount of data and putting it into the public domain. The feds hated this. They smeared him, the FBI investigated him, and for a while, it looked like he'd be on the pointy end of some bad legal stuff, but he escaped it all, and emerged triumphant." -http://boingboing.net/2013/01/12/rip-aaron-swartz.html http://boingboing.net/2013/01/12/rip-aaron-swartz.html Aaron makes a parallel between the Batman movie and his own struggles, highlighting the corruption of the system and how the Joker was actually the only "sane" person in an insane world. Sadly, he decided to pursue the same path as Heath Ledger. -zatara -doktrin -http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk discussion on http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421 "Depressed mood:.." -http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/verysick http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/verysick "Later, I tried to take care of him while he was being destroyed, from inside and out. I struggled so hard, but not as hard as he did. I told him, time and again, that this was his 20s. It would be better in his 30s. Just wait. Please, just hold on." -His Girlfriend http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?p=644 http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?p=644 Lessons to learn for myself: Depression is a serious issue ... no doubt the Govt case played a big role in his last moments, but so did the little things: previous thoughts of ending life, excessive stress, depression. Love how jacques_chester said below: "Depression is insidious because it makes all the alternatives to suicide seem much more difficult than they actually are." It might be easier to blame one person, than these smaller hard to see things. Things we can find fault in ourselves, and improve, putting bigger focus on these clues and hints of depression that exist in many of our relationships, and other early warning signs. Aaron Swartz did many amazing and courageous things in his life, and his life was a great service for our nation, but had he lived another day... I want to end with this word of hope to HN community and others by Pitarou: "TL;DR If Swartz's death is triggering suicidal thoughts, you must understand that this will pass, and life will be worth living. After seeing the impact of Aaron Swartz's death on the Hacker News community, I am concerned about the Werther effect (the tendency of a prominent suicide to trigger other suicides). I hope I can help by sharing what I learnt through 10+ years of depression and recovery. Depression robs you of the ability to: 1. remember happiness 2. feel happiness 3. anticipate happiness 4. make considered decisions #1-#3 make you miserable, but #4 is the killer. Bits of your brain actually shut down, and you run on pure emotion. For example, when I was depressed, I was easy prey for offers like "4 for the price of 3 on this crappy overpriced chocolate" because I couldn't weigh it up. All I could think was "chocolate: good. 4 for 3: good. 4 for 3 chocolate: irresistible". But if you're running on pure emotion and your emotions tell you "everything sucks" well ... suicide looks like a good option. So why didn't I kill myself? Somewhere in my guts, there was a stubborn belief that "this will pass". You might even call it a sense of entitlement: "come on world -- you can give me something better than this!" And you know what? It DID! Thanks to some wonderful people, and to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, I found a way to recover. With the best 10+ years of my life lost to depression, starting from scratch in my 30s has been hard, but it's still a life, and I swear that life is worth more than you can possibly understand when you're depressed. Stay strong, Pitarou"
bguthrie 14y ago
I worked closely with Aaron over the last year, and knew him, though not as well as I would have liked. My belief is that the legal process weighed on him tremendously, though he didn't often show it. I am very, very angry with our system right now.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
mc32 14y ago
Some people commit suicide after breakups --the other person often times feels guilt, yet they are not really guilty in any sense. There is at times a perception, though.

by wheels 14y ago

jacquesm 14y ago

> You didn't know this person. That's an assumption on your part. And this was in response to people jumping to completely different conclusions, for instance that these things are not related at all. I wouldn't be so quick to make that call. Maybe you feel like arguing this line with his mom? : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047398 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047398

wheels 14y ago
To be clear -- I'm totally fine with people who knew Aaron well commenting on these matters. I did in fact assume that was not the case and apologize if I was wrong there. I guess my rub is two-fold: - The visible portion of public figures lives is only a fraction of the complete picture, and extrapolating from that visible portion rubs me the wrong way. - These things are complex. As another commenter noted, suicide rarely has a single reason. (And I think we put labels on these things mostly for ourselves; it's easier to cope when there's an label to pin onto a tragedy.)
hyperbovine 14y ago
> That's an assumption on your part. Are you assuming that, or...?
larrys 14y ago
"Maybe you feel like arguing this line with his mom?" How do you know the person who setup that account and posted that is actually his mom?
- jacquesm 14y ago
  I don't. How do you know she isn't? Until I have evidence to the contrary I tend to believe what people say.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - larrys 14y ago
    "How do you know she isn't?" I questioned what you said I didn't (when I asked you) state that the poster wasn't his mother. I don't know that she is or isn't. That said I will now say that I feel that it's highly unlikely that a mother who has lost her son to suicide is going to open up a HN account [1] and post something when a loss like this happens. Of course if a HN admin has access to IP addresses or where and how the account was setup or some other non public information that's something else. [1] Adding: so quickly after the loss
    - Alex3917 14y ago
      He worked on Reddit, which is very similar to HN. It's not that unlikely.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      I hope you can restrain yourself and that you won't be asking for their passports and birth certificates: http://rememberaaronsw.tumblr.com/post/40372208044/official-statement-from-the-family-and-partner-of-aaron http://rememberaaronsw.tumblr.com/post/40372208044/official-...

jfoster 14y ago

Even if the assumption were wrong in this particular case, it is a worthwhile discussion to have. Intelligent people doing something relatively harmless being threatened with the possibility of decades in prison means something is very wrong.

rmc 14y ago

Here here. Charities that work with people struggling with suicide and mental health problems consistently ask the media to not attribute a suicide to one particular cause. Often things are more complicated than that.

vmialik 14y ago
Agreed. But do want to say being a HN community its good to observe/"hack" his life and learn from this. As one big question arises: Was his death to make a statement, give up, or escape this life. Food for thought: Reddit life: "I was miserable. I couldn't stand San Francisco. I couldn't stand office life. I couldn't stand Wired. I took a long Christmas vacation. I got sick. I thought of suicide. I ran from the police. And when I got back on Monday morning, I was asked to resign." "I followed these rules. And here I am today, with a dozen projects on my plate and my stress level through the roof once again." "Every morning I wake up and check my email to see which one of my projects has imploded today, which deadlines I'm behind on, which talks I need to write, and which articles I need to edit." -https://aaronsw.jottit.com/howtoget https://aaronsw.jottit.com/howtoget Post Reddit Era: "The post-Reddit era in Aaron's life was really his coming of age. His stunts were breathtaking. At one point, he singlehandedly liberated 20 percent of US law. PACER, the system that gives Americans access to their own (public domain) case-law, charged a fee for each such access. After activists built RECAP (which allowed its users to put any caselaw they paid for into a free/public repository), Aaron spent a small fortune fetching a titanic amount of data and putting it into the public domain. The feds hated this. They smeared him, the FBI investigated him, and for a while, it looked like he'd be on the pointy end of some bad legal stuff, but he escaped it all, and emerged triumphant." -http://boingboing.net/2013/01/12/rip-aaron-swartz.html http://boingboing.net/2013/01/12/rip-aaron-swartz.html Aaron makes a parallel between the Batman movie and his own struggles, highlighting the corruption of the system and how the Joker was actually the only "sane" person in an insane world. Sadly, he decided to pursue the same path as Heath Ledger. -zatara -doktrin -http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk discussion on http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421 "Depressed mood:.." -http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/verysick http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/verysick "Later, I tried to take care of him while he was being destroyed, from inside and out. I struggled so hard, but not as hard as he did. I told him, time and again, that this was his 20s. It would be better in his 30s. Just wait. Please, just hold on." -His Girlfriend http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?p=644 http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?p=644 Lessons to learn for myself: Depression is a serious issue ... no doubt the Govt case played a big role in his last moments, but so did the little things: previous thoughts of ending life, excessive stress, depression. Love how jacques_chester said below: "Depression is insidious because it makes all the alternatives to suicide seem much more difficult than they actually are." It might be easier to blame one person, than these smaller hard to see things. Things we can find fault in ourselves, and improve, putting bigger focus on these clues and hints of depression that exist in many of our relationships, and other early warning signs. Aaron Swartz did many amazing and courageous things in his life, and his life was a great service for our nation, but had he lived another day... I want to end with this word of hope to HN community and others by Pitarou: "TL;DR If Swartz's death is triggering suicidal thoughts, you must understand that this will pass, and life will be worth living. After seeing the impact of Aaron Swartz's death on the Hacker News community, I am concerned about the Werther effect (the tendency of a prominent suicide to trigger other suicides). I hope I can help by sharing what I learnt through 10+ years of depression and recovery. Depression robs you of the ability to: 1. remember happiness 2. feel happiness 3. anticipate happiness 4. make considered decisions #1-#3 make you miserable, but #4 is the killer. Bits of your brain actually shut down, and you run on pure emotion. For example, when I was depressed, I was easy prey for offers like "4 for the price of 3 on this crappy overpriced chocolate" because I couldn't weigh it up. All I could think was "chocolate: good. 4 for 3: good. 4 for 3 chocolate: irresistible". But if you're running on pure emotion and your emotions tell you "everything sucks" well ... suicide looks like a good option. So why didn't I kill myself? Somewhere in my guts, there was a stubborn belief that "this will pass". You might even call it a sense of entitlement: "come on world -- you can give me something better than this!" And you know what? It DID! Thanks to some wonderful people, and to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, I found a way to recover. With the best 10+ years of my life lost to depression, starting from scratch in my 30s has been hard, but it's still a life, and I swear that life is worth more than you can possibly understand when you're depressed. Stay strong, Pitarou"

bguthrie 14y ago

I worked closely with Aaron over the last year, and knew him, though not as well as I would have liked. My belief is that the legal process weighed on him tremendously, though he didn't often show it. I am very, very angry with our system right now.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

mc32 14y ago

Some people commit suicide after breakups --the other person often times feels guilt, yet they are not really guilty in any sense. There is at times a perception, though.