4 ms·

As someone who's suffered from mental illness for most of his life, I disagree. While I have things largely under control these days, it had nothing to do with

by daeken 14y ago

As someone who's suffered from mental illness for most of his life, I disagree. While I have things largely under control these days, it had nothing to do with the professional help that was offered/forced on me; in fact, it was a huge impediment. Receiving help is not a panacea, and I can't blame anyone who's dealt with it for a long time for completely lacking hope. I don't think suicide is the answer, but I can at least see the point of view; after all, I could've seen myself going down the same path, if I hadn't figured out how to cope.

icelancer 14y ago
Absolutely. The idea that all suicides can be prevented "if only he would have gotten help" is such a trite and simple answer to a complex question. Other comments like "What a waste" and "This didn't need to happen" are borderline insulting. Whether someone realizes it or not, those are incredibly disrespectful comments.
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  It's not held that all suicides are preventable by treatment. But depressed persons who receive treatment are less likely to commit suicide. That's the bottom line. We can't save everyone. But we can save more than just letting it happen.
- ck2 14y ago
  I have no illusion that therapy is magically going to stop all suicides. But might help get someone to next week or next month or next year where they might feel different about life. This is one of those things where you don't "do nothing because you cannot completely solve the problem". I do disagree though - suicides of the young/healthy are often a sad waste, depression needs perspective which you cannot find by simply looking in the mirror.
- pretoriusB 14y ago
  >I have no illusion that therapy is magically going to stop all suicides. I think the very existence of "professional therapy" is a factor in FAVOR of depression and suicide. It means that as a society we have compartmentalised social life, so that the help one previously expected from his family/friends (and ultimately: from the way he can structure his life) is now to be had from paid professionals (or tacky volunteers).
  - pfortuny 14y ago
    Oh, no you do not understand at all. Depression cannot be dealt with just with an 'ordinary and structured life': it is an illness. It has existed always. The fact that there are specialists means that today, we have accepted is as what it its: a disease whose symptoms, professionals can, at least, try to decrease or even eliminate. Do not mistake 'tiredness', 'a season of bad temper', 'the normal stress during a crisis' with a real permanent disorder. Because you may make more harm than good. Really.
    - pretoriusB 14y ago
      >Oh, no you do not understand at all. Depression cannot be dealt with just with an 'ordinary and structured life': it is an illness. It has existed always. While there are cases of physiological depression (an actual illness) in the staggering majority of cases it's not an illness but an easy cop-out to deny any major wrong with societal structure and the modern way of life. "The fact that there are specialists" just means that the medical industry has found another profitable malaise to exploit -- similar to all those BS ADD prescriptions. Ironically, Aaron Swartz conveyed this quite well in one of his posts "fix the factory, not the workers": "And when the system isn’t working, it doesn’t make sense to just yell at the people in it — any more than you’d try to fix a machine by yelling at the gears. True, sometimes you have the wrong gears and need to replace them, but more often you’re just using them in the wrong way. When there’s a problem, you shouldn’t get angry with the gears — you should fix the machine." http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/nummi http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/nummi
      - pfortuny 14y ago
        Well, it depends on what you understand by the word. It is obvious that in most cases, when one says "I feel depressed", he is just saying "I feel low", like "I'd like the Earth to swallow me", nobody means "I'd like to die" literally. However, I just wanted to point out that there are REAL depressions, as you acknowledge (my fear was that you were not acknowledging even this). So I see we agree but I had my fears.

by daeken 14y ago

icelancer 14y ago

Absolutely. The idea that all suicides can be prevented "if only he would have gotten help" is such a trite and simple answer to a complex question. Other comments like "What a waste" and "This didn't need to happen" are borderline insulting. Whether someone realizes it or not, those are incredibly disrespectful comments.

jacques_chester 14y ago
It's not held that all suicides are preventable by treatment. But depressed persons who receive treatment are less likely to commit suicide. That's the bottom line. We can't save everyone. But we can save more than just letting it happen.
ck2 14y ago
I have no illusion that therapy is magically going to stop all suicides. But might help get someone to next week or next month or next year where they might feel different about life. This is one of those things where you don't "do nothing because you cannot completely solve the problem". I do disagree though - suicides of the young/healthy are often a sad waste, depression needs perspective which you cannot find by simply looking in the mirror.
pretoriusB 14y ago
>I have no illusion that therapy is magically going to stop all suicides. I think the very existence of "professional therapy" is a factor in FAVOR of depression and suicide. It means that as a society we have compartmentalised social life, so that the help one previously expected from his family/friends (and ultimately: from the way he can structure his life) is now to be had from paid professionals (or tacky volunteers).
- pfortuny 14y ago
  Oh, no you do not understand at all. Depression cannot be dealt with just with an 'ordinary and structured life': it is an illness. It has existed always. The fact that there are specialists means that today, we have accepted is as what it its: a disease whose symptoms, professionals can, at least, try to decrease or even eliminate. Do not mistake 'tiredness', 'a season of bad temper', 'the normal stress during a crisis' with a real permanent disorder. Because you may make more harm than good. Really.
  - pretoriusB 14y ago
    >Oh, no you do not understand at all. Depression cannot be dealt with just with an 'ordinary and structured life': it is an illness. It has existed always. While there are cases of physiological depression (an actual illness) in the staggering majority of cases it's not an illness but an easy cop-out to deny any major wrong with societal structure and the modern way of life. "The fact that there are specialists" just means that the medical industry has found another profitable malaise to exploit -- similar to all those BS ADD prescriptions. Ironically, Aaron Swartz conveyed this quite well in one of his posts "fix the factory, not the workers": "And when the system isn’t working, it doesn’t make sense to just yell at the people in it — any more than you’d try to fix a machine by yelling at the gears. True, sometimes you have the wrong gears and need to replace them, but more often you’re just using them in the wrong way. When there’s a problem, you shouldn’t get angry with the gears — you should fix the machine." http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/nummi http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/nummi
    - pfortuny 14y ago
      Well, it depends on what you understand by the word. It is obvious that in most cases, when one says "I feel depressed", he is just saying "I feel low", like "I'd like the Earth to swallow me", nobody means "I'd like to die" literally. However, I just wanted to point out that there are REAL depressions, as you acknowledge (my fear was that you were not acknowledging even this). So I see we agree but I had my fears.