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Article 9, along with Japan's reduced military spending and lack of a local Military Industrial Complex, or one that was substantially reduced in scope after th

Article 9, along with Japan's reduced military spending and lack of a local Military Industrial Complex, or one that was substantially reduced in scope after the Second World War with focus redirected to consumer goods, is a significant reason why Japan was able to recover quickly after the war and to develop into the modern nation it has become. What's missing from that news article, is the announcement on Friday of the ten naval patrol boats Japan will supply or lend to the Philippines to help protect against Chinese naval and fishing fleet incursions in local waters.

hkmurakami 14y ago
Pardon me for the non-sequitur. I just wrote a fairly lengthy comment about the possible merits of an expanded Japanese military industrial complex (in helping Japan's languishing economy) given the industrial strengths of Japan that suit arms manufacturing well and potential interest in SE and South Asian nations of non-US non-Russian weaponry, but couldn't get myself to post the comment for fear that because my user ID clearly indicates that I am ethnically Japanese, I could be taken as an imperialist nationalist; a strange psychological phenomenon to say the least. I wonder if there is a name for such a double take?
- berntb 14y ago
  >> I wonder if there is a name for such a double take? "Funny"? (Sorry for a non-serious answer to a serious comment, I'm making a point that you should relax. The lack of taking responsibility (school education etc) for what happened in the 2nd world war might make other countries nervous, but afaik only Germany ever took responsibility for large war atrocities. Not Turkey, Pakistan, the Chinese communist party, etc, etc. No one expects a return of the militaristic Japan.)
  - bashou 14y ago
    What's wrong with Turkey and Pakistan?
    - berntb 14y ago
      First comment from a nine minutes old account... Ask with your real account and I'll answer. Edit: Oh, wtf... see the censoring of the Armenian genocide in Turkey. Also afaik, they don't teach in Pakistan about what happened in Bangladesh in the early 70s.
      - iuguy 14y ago
        You bring a good point to the thread about sins of the father, although you might not have realised it. The Armenian government claims that the Turkish government is responsible for the Armenian genocide, although the Turkish republic (and it's government) didn't exist at the time. This is a bit like blaming the US for atrocities committed by the republic of Texas in California. The decision about censoring the Armenian genocide is purely political and saddens me, but it's more to do with geopolitics than history.
        berntb 14y ago
        The Pakistani government couldn't argue that, but Japan and most every other country ("It was a previous government, doesn't reflect us as a country at all"). It isn't that simple, sadly.
  - wyuenho 14y ago
    Depends on what you mean by "taking responsibility". Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan all have received the wrath of US military power and paid with enormous human and economic costs. The revival of a militaristic Japan is actually more likely than you think, tho still very unlikely. The reason is simple, most of the conditions that led to WWII still exist today. Japan is still controlled by a largely hawkish right-wing elite aristocratic class. Japan still brainwashes its population by denying war crimes committed during WWII. Japan still has virtually no natural resources enough to sustain its large population. Japan is still the premier military power in East Asia. Japan still spends an enormous amount of money on its military, however "defensive" it may be (I honestly don't know how a military that has helicopter carriers is defensive in nature). The only difference is that Japan is now militarily aligned with the U.S. and that China is no longer a political, technological, economical and military weakling. The Chinese would like to believe that the only thing standing between a peaceful Japan and a militaristic Japan is the PLA.
    - berntb 14y ago
      >>"taking responsibility". Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan all have received the wrath of US military power and paid With "take responsibility" in English afaik, it means that you take responsibility for the situation (often implied I believe -- that you caused). If something else is implied by the expression, please enlighten me. I have a hard time believing that Japan would start doing military adventures. It is, more or less, a functioning democracy. See the democratic peace theory, not even USA makes wars against democracies... (And about your examples... Syria could use some responsibility from the self proclaimed world cop. It is a horror story probably worse than ex Yugoslavia; a shame for Obama. It just doesn't fit his priorities.)
      - wyuenho 14y ago
        One would say that external constraints imposed upon a criminal, which often includes said criminal taking action to correct his mistake in whatever form the imposer deems appropriate, as the criminal "taking responsibility". Germany is in no way the only country which has taken responsibility for war atrocities, but it is AFAIK, the only country which repent voluntarily and willingly. You may want to keep this in mind next time you play with semantics. Only direct, total democracy leads to peace. There is no such government in place in the world right now. The US, though it has not formally declared war against other "democracies", it has in many instances, conducted clandestine subversive activities that one nation may use as the casus belli. For example, in 2001, Haiti democratically reelected a Catholic priest as president for the third time. In 2004, with the backing of the CIA, the president Jean-Bertrand Aristide was removed from office in a coup for reasons many accused as Aristide simply not being obedient to Western powers. The US has also openly supported many oppressive regimes in the past and present time. This is also one of the pretexts Al-Qaeda used as justifications of their attacks against the US. While Japan may not return to its imperial and militaristic roots in the past, it is perfect as a proxy vanguard against China and Russia. The US is good at proxy wars. As long as Japan is catering to the US's demands, the US may just turn a blind eye and condone Japan's rise as yet another aggressive nation in North East Asia. It only took Germany a decade to become Nazi Germany after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_coup_d%27etat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_coup_d%27etat
  - iuguy 14y ago
    > Not Turkey Well, maybe not Turkey as it hasn't been defeated in any wars nor committed large war atrocities, but the predecessor state the Ottoman Empire was effectively dismantled by the treaty of Sevres at the end of the first world war, and the only reason the Ottoman Empire entered the war on the German side was the minister of war going behind the prime minister's back and signing a secret defensive treaty with the Germans. The original plan was to remain neutral as the government of the time knew it couldn't fight a war against the British and French or the Germans without losing territory, and that by remaining neutral it would leave options open for alliances should Russia invade. Because of this, the Ottoman Empire was partitioned and dismantled, leaving only Istanbul and a small surrounding strip of land. It was this that led to former military commanders fighting the independence war that led to the creation of the modern Turkish republic.
    - batgaijin 14y ago
      >> "nor committed large war atrocities" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
      - berntb 14y ago
        I wonder, whenever that subject comes up, there are comments denying/obfuscating any Turkish responsibility. But directly when a Wikipedia link is posted, you hear nothing more... Is there some Turkish "50 cent army" thing?
- wyuenho 14y ago
  This is HN, I think this is last virgin land the political nut jobs haven't found yet. Why don't you post it first and we'll discuss it like reasonable people?
- ucee054 14y ago
  Maybe you had a double take because that's a really bad idea? More weapons lead to more deaths. There are better ways to stimulate the economy and technology EG race to Mars

hkmurakami 14y ago

Pardon me for the non-sequitur. I just wrote a fairly lengthy comment about the possible merits of an expanded Japanese military industrial complex (in helping Japan's languishing economy) given the industrial strengths of Japan that suit arms manufacturing well and potential interest in SE and South Asian nations of non-US non-Russian weaponry, but couldn't get myself to post the comment for fear that because my user ID clearly indicates that I am ethnically Japanese, I could be taken as an imperialist nationalist; a strange psychological phenomenon to say the least. I wonder if there is a name for such a double take?

berntb 14y ago
>> I wonder if there is a name for such a double take? "Funny"? (Sorry for a non-serious answer to a serious comment, I'm making a point that you should relax. The lack of taking responsibility (school education etc) for what happened in the 2nd world war might make other countries nervous, but afaik only Germany ever took responsibility for large war atrocities. Not Turkey, Pakistan, the Chinese communist party, etc, etc. No one expects a return of the militaristic Japan.)
- bashou 14y ago
  What's wrong with Turkey and Pakistan?
  - berntb 14y ago
    First comment from a nine minutes old account... Ask with your real account and I'll answer. Edit: Oh, wtf... see the censoring of the Armenian genocide in Turkey. Also afaik, they don't teach in Pakistan about what happened in Bangladesh in the early 70s.
    - iuguy 14y ago
      You bring a good point to the thread about sins of the father, although you might not have realised it. The Armenian government claims that the Turkish government is responsible for the Armenian genocide, although the Turkish republic (and it's government) didn't exist at the time. This is a bit like blaming the US for atrocities committed by the republic of Texas in California. The decision about censoring the Armenian genocide is purely political and saddens me, but it's more to do with geopolitics than history.
      - berntb 14y ago
        The Pakistani government couldn't argue that, but Japan and most every other country ("It was a previous government, doesn't reflect us as a country at all"). It isn't that simple, sadly.
- wyuenho 14y ago
  Depends on what you mean by "taking responsibility". Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan all have received the wrath of US military power and paid with enormous human and economic costs. The revival of a militaristic Japan is actually more likely than you think, tho still very unlikely. The reason is simple, most of the conditions that led to WWII still exist today. Japan is still controlled by a largely hawkish right-wing elite aristocratic class. Japan still brainwashes its population by denying war crimes committed during WWII. Japan still has virtually no natural resources enough to sustain its large population. Japan is still the premier military power in East Asia. Japan still spends an enormous amount of money on its military, however "defensive" it may be (I honestly don't know how a military that has helicopter carriers is defensive in nature). The only difference is that Japan is now militarily aligned with the U.S. and that China is no longer a political, technological, economical and military weakling. The Chinese would like to believe that the only thing standing between a peaceful Japan and a militaristic Japan is the PLA.
  - berntb 14y ago
    >>"taking responsibility". Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan all have received the wrath of US military power and paid With "take responsibility" in English afaik, it means that you take responsibility for the situation (often implied I believe -- that you caused). If something else is implied by the expression, please enlighten me. I have a hard time believing that Japan would start doing military adventures. It is, more or less, a functioning democracy. See the democratic peace theory, not even USA makes wars against democracies... (And about your examples... Syria could use some responsibility from the self proclaimed world cop. It is a horror story probably worse than ex Yugoslavia; a shame for Obama. It just doesn't fit his priorities.)
    - wyuenho 14y ago
      One would say that external constraints imposed upon a criminal, which often includes said criminal taking action to correct his mistake in whatever form the imposer deems appropriate, as the criminal "taking responsibility". Germany is in no way the only country which has taken responsibility for war atrocities, but it is AFAIK, the only country which repent voluntarily and willingly. You may want to keep this in mind next time you play with semantics. Only direct, total democracy leads to peace. There is no such government in place in the world right now. The US, though it has not formally declared war against other "democracies", it has in many instances, conducted clandestine subversive activities that one nation may use as the casus belli. For example, in 2001, Haiti democratically reelected a Catholic priest as president for the third time. In 2004, with the backing of the CIA, the president Jean-Bertrand Aristide was removed from office in a coup for reasons many accused as Aristide simply not being obedient to Western powers. The US has also openly supported many oppressive regimes in the past and present time. This is also one of the pretexts Al-Qaeda used as justifications of their attacks against the US. While Japan may not return to its imperial and militaristic roots in the past, it is perfect as a proxy vanguard against China and Russia. The US is good at proxy wars. As long as Japan is catering to the US's demands, the US may just turn a blind eye and condone Japan's rise as yet another aggressive nation in North East Asia. It only took Germany a decade to become Nazi Germany after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_coup_d%27etat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_coup_d%27etat
- iuguy 14y ago
  > Not Turkey Well, maybe not Turkey as it hasn't been defeated in any wars nor committed large war atrocities, but the predecessor state the Ottoman Empire was effectively dismantled by the treaty of Sevres at the end of the first world war, and the only reason the Ottoman Empire entered the war on the German side was the minister of war going behind the prime minister's back and signing a secret defensive treaty with the Germans. The original plan was to remain neutral as the government of the time knew it couldn't fight a war against the British and French or the Germans without losing territory, and that by remaining neutral it would leave options open for alliances should Russia invade. Because of this, the Ottoman Empire was partitioned and dismantled, leaving only Istanbul and a small surrounding strip of land. It was this that led to former military commanders fighting the independence war that led to the creation of the modern Turkish republic.
  - batgaijin 14y ago
    >> "nor committed large war atrocities" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
    - berntb 14y ago
      I wonder, whenever that subject comes up, there are comments denying/obfuscating any Turkish responsibility. But directly when a Wikipedia link is posted, you hear nothing more... Is there some Turkish "50 cent army" thing?
wyuenho 14y ago
This is HN, I think this is last virgin land the political nut jobs haven't found yet. Why don't you post it first and we'll discuss it like reasonable people?
ucee054 14y ago
Maybe you had a double take because that's a really bad idea? More weapons lead to more deaths. There are better ways to stimulate the economy and technology EG race to Mars