5 ms·

finally stepping past the limits of article 9. I think it's not fair that we crippled japan's military autonomy; I mean the military funding in the usa is why

finally stepping past the limits of article 9. I think it's not fair that we crippled japan's military autonomy; I mean the military funding in the usa is why we are at the front of the computer revolution. I just want a japanese competitor to wintel :'(

yareally 14y ago
I think most Asian countries invaded and occupied by the Japanese Military would have to disagree with that. Probably none of us are old enough to recall what it was like during that time, but from historical research and documentaries of accounts of civilians at the time, there's many good reasons Japan's military was crippled severely, just as Germany's military was. Also, it was not like either were left defenseless. The United States was bound to defend Japan by treaty and West Germany became part of NATO. Crippling their militaries, each country took to dominating economically instead and benefited the world much more than any of their previous military actions did. Semi related, but anyone interested a good World War II series and has not seen it, I reccomend the BBC's World at War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War). Lots of first hand accounts and interviews of leaders and their staff at the time of WWII.
- batgaijin 14y ago
  I'm certainly not defending their war atrocities by any means. I just think that our military spending is responsible for a majority of our technological improvements, and it's sad japan never had a say really after their crash.
  - yareally 14y ago
    True, I agree that many innovations come out of research done by (or for) the military (microwaves, jet engines, computers, etc). It would be interesting to see the outcome of lifting the restrictions sooner and Japan's Economy, but it would have probably stirred up much in the way of negativity and distrust from other countries as well. It could have easily hurt trade, foreign relations and backfired as well. On the other hand, neither Germany or Japan in WWII had to suffer through the terms and conditions placed on Germany after The Great War (WWI). That was if anything, the worse possible way to help a country recover.
  - berntb 14y ago
    Well, I'm all for military research. But it seems like a criminal waste of resources to build the developed stuff -- and train lots of people. This decision have no good reason (North Korea? Hardly), it is forced because China haven't democratized so it needs external enemies to generate jingoism and hinder criticism of the Party. (But sure, maybe China's main motivation is to get natural resources in sea areas that have belonged to other countries for centuries. That is hardly better.) Edit: Clarity.
  - kiba 14y ago
    You may want to look into broken window fallacy. Technological improvement that happens because of military spending could have happened anyway under civilian spending, although the side effects resulting from research may well be different.
    - batgaijin 14y ago
      And a pdp11 and an i7 give you the same results given enough time.
nekojima 14y ago
Article 9, along with Japan's reduced military spending and lack of a local Military Industrial Complex, or one that was substantially reduced in scope after the Second World War with focus redirected to consumer goods, is a significant reason why Japan was able to recover quickly after the war and to develop into the modern nation it has become. What's missing from that news article, is the announcement on Friday of the ten naval patrol boats Japan will supply or lend to the Philippines to help protect against Chinese naval and fishing fleet incursions in local waters.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  Pardon me for the non-sequitur. I just wrote a fairly lengthy comment about the possible merits of an expanded Japanese military industrial complex (in helping Japan's languishing economy) given the industrial strengths of Japan that suit arms manufacturing well and potential interest in SE and South Asian nations of non-US non-Russian weaponry, but couldn't get myself to post the comment for fear that because my user ID clearly indicates that I am ethnically Japanese, I could be taken as an imperialist nationalist; a strange psychological phenomenon to say the least. I wonder if there is a name for such a double take?
  - berntb 14y ago
    >> I wonder if there is a name for such a double take? "Funny"? (Sorry for a non-serious answer to a serious comment, I'm making a point that you should relax. The lack of taking responsibility (school education etc) for what happened in the 2nd world war might make other countries nervous, but afaik only Germany ever took responsibility for large war atrocities. Not Turkey, Pakistan, the Chinese communist party, etc, etc. No one expects a return of the militaristic Japan.)
    - bashou 14y ago
      What's wrong with Turkey and Pakistan?
      - 14y ago

yareally 14y ago

I think most Asian countries invaded and occupied by the Japanese Military would have to disagree with that. Probably none of us are old enough to recall what it was like during that time, but from historical research and documentaries of accounts of civilians at the time, there's many good reasons Japan's military was crippled severely, just as Germany's military was. Also, it was not like either were left defenseless. The United States was bound to defend Japan by treaty and West Germany became part of NATO. Crippling their militaries, each country took to dominating economically instead and benefited the world much more than any of their previous military actions did. Semi related, but anyone interested a good World War II series and has not seen it, I reccomend the BBC's World at War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War). Lots of first hand accounts and interviews of leaders and their staff at the time of WWII.

batgaijin 14y ago
I'm certainly not defending their war atrocities by any means. I just think that our military spending is responsible for a majority of our technological improvements, and it's sad japan never had a say really after their crash.
- yareally 14y ago
  True, I agree that many innovations come out of research done by (or for) the military (microwaves, jet engines, computers, etc). It would be interesting to see the outcome of lifting the restrictions sooner and Japan's Economy, but it would have probably stirred up much in the way of negativity and distrust from other countries as well. It could have easily hurt trade, foreign relations and backfired as well. On the other hand, neither Germany or Japan in WWII had to suffer through the terms and conditions placed on Germany after The Great War (WWI). That was if anything, the worse possible way to help a country recover.
- berntb 14y ago
  Well, I'm all for military research. But it seems like a criminal waste of resources to build the developed stuff -- and train lots of people. This decision have no good reason (North Korea? Hardly), it is forced because China haven't democratized so it needs external enemies to generate jingoism and hinder criticism of the Party. (But sure, maybe China's main motivation is to get natural resources in sea areas that have belonged to other countries for centuries. That is hardly better.) Edit: Clarity.
- kiba 14y ago
  You may want to look into broken window fallacy. Technological improvement that happens because of military spending could have happened anyway under civilian spending, although the side effects resulting from research may well be different.
  - batgaijin 14y ago
    And a pdp11 and an i7 give you the same results given enough time.

nekojima 14y ago

Article 9, along with Japan's reduced military spending and lack of a local Military Industrial Complex, or one that was substantially reduced in scope after the Second World War with focus redirected to consumer goods, is a significant reason why Japan was able to recover quickly after the war and to develop into the modern nation it has become. What's missing from that news article, is the announcement on Friday of the ten naval patrol boats Japan will supply or lend to the Philippines to help protect against Chinese naval and fishing fleet incursions in local waters.

hkmurakami 14y ago
Pardon me for the non-sequitur. I just wrote a fairly lengthy comment about the possible merits of an expanded Japanese military industrial complex (in helping Japan's languishing economy) given the industrial strengths of Japan that suit arms manufacturing well and potential interest in SE and South Asian nations of non-US non-Russian weaponry, but couldn't get myself to post the comment for fear that because my user ID clearly indicates that I am ethnically Japanese, I could be taken as an imperialist nationalist; a strange psychological phenomenon to say the least. I wonder if there is a name for such a double take?
- berntb 14y ago
  >> I wonder if there is a name for such a double take? "Funny"? (Sorry for a non-serious answer to a serious comment, I'm making a point that you should relax. The lack of taking responsibility (school education etc) for what happened in the 2nd world war might make other countries nervous, but afaik only Germany ever took responsibility for large war atrocities. Not Turkey, Pakistan, the Chinese communist party, etc, etc. No one expects a return of the militaristic Japan.)
  - bashou 14y ago
    What's wrong with Turkey and Pakistan?
    - 14y ago