7 ms·

Why I won’t be closing down BetaPunch: A formal apology

44 points by rnochumo 14y ago

shawn-butler 14y ago
This whole thing seems pretty fishy. Like scripted melodrama to be honest. Whatever works, I guess.
- rhizome 14y ago
  If it's scripted, the blogger who originally publicized this should have something to say for themselves.
  - ghayes 14y ago
    That's clearly not Danielle's intention[1]. Be careful to not accuse someone on mere speculation. [1] http://www.daniellemorrill.com/2013/01/why-i-wont-be-using-betapunch-for-user-testing/ http://www.daniellemorrill.com/2013/01/why-i-wont-be-using-b...
  - dmor 14y ago
    I would not do that. I know you've all seen that I will do a lot of things for growth, but I won't be dishonest.
    - rhizome 14y ago
      It's nothing personal, the sheer thinness of this apology calls the whole incident into question.
- parfe 14y ago
  You think someone purposely praised a competitor's service, brought up previous misdeeds by betapunch, and had a public argument as a scripted drama to promote...?
SparrowOS 14y ago
employer, not employee
jessaustin 14y ago
It would be better if he had specifically promised not to share user tests with the general public in future. This almost feels like, "now I know I have to apologize when I share my users' private data, and in future I will apologize when I do that".
mingpan 14y ago
I can't imagine what he was originally thinking.
- ralphos 14y ago
  Perhaps "any publicity is good publicity" - at the end of the day, he's had two posts about Betapunch on the front page of HN as a result of all this, and I doubt people will remember this whole episode in a few weeks.
zdgman 14y ago
It is interesting to note how even the apology is more directed at discussing BetaPunch and learning rather than apologizing. How does "Why I won't be closing down BetaPunch" have anything to do with the apology? Seems out of place and still shows a lack of understanding. Leave off all discussion of why you won't be closing BetaPunch and just focus on admitting you screwed up (which was done) and detailing how you will make it right.
- smegel 14y ago
  That was my take on it too. If your going to apologize, why not call it an apology...
- notatoad 14y ago
  It's clearly a reference to Danielle's original blog post. He wanted to format his title "Why i won't be..." and "closing down betapunch" must have been the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure such an overwhelmingly negative (and popular) blog post calling out your company as kind of shitty makes you consider shutting down when you're a small operation.
  - joshdotsmith 14y ago
    It's possible there's some SEO strategery going on here, too. </conspiracy>
    - minimaxir 14y ago
      It's worth noting that this article is now #4 when Googling "betapunch". Danielle's article is now #5. It's progress!
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- TallboyOne 14y ago
  I can't agree more, but I can also empathize with someone who has been programming their life with no real PR-type job, and runs their company as a one man show.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jblock 14y ago
There's almost no sincerity here. I don't like being catty and publicly antagonizing people, but this guy needs to re-evaluate whether he can be the public face of his business. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5034760 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5034760 That's just childish behavior.
joshwayne 14y ago
No part of this addresses what he did wrong or what he will do differently in the future. The title alone tells me he's just trying to get the last word in, even if it's that he's sorry.
zopticity 14y ago
I'm not sure whether this was a marketing stunt or the betapunch guys didn't know how to act professionally. Honestly, someone at betapunch should have stepped in and indicated the problem. I'm not even sure why it took two days for a formal apology, it should have been done much sooner than that. Betapunch guys need to hire the right employees to handle PR and interact with people because this post shows those interactive skills are not his strengths.
- rhizome 14y ago
  Weekend news cycle, but what do you mean "employees" plural?
- MJR 14y ago
  There's no betapunch "guys" - It's just him. There's no one to step in and there's no one to hire - this an app run by a single person. He doesn't have income to be able to hire people to take care of this for him. He got himself into this mess and he's trying to get himself out of it.
maskedinvader 14y ago
can some one be kind enough to give TL DR version of what this guy did ? i read the post nut wasnt clear what exactly happened with the customer !
- matznerd 14y ago
  He publicly posted private info from "customers" who used his software and berated those who complained or used competitors.
  - maskedinvader 14y ago
    thanks for that.
michaelhoffman 14y ago
This is a really odd post. Has anyone called for BetaPunch to be closed down? This seems like a straw man. If you want to apologize, just apologize. It's not the time for more self-marketing.
- rhizome 14y ago
  Not if he doesn't think he has anything to apologize for.
eduardordm 14y ago
Danielle accepted his apologies and commented on his blog. Hopefully that gesture made him learn something - because by reading his apologies I feel he didn't fully understand what happened. "I completely understand and respect your reasoning." There are many things that I respect and understand but don't agree. I just hope this is not the case.
jetti 14y ago
"I won’t make any excuses for my actions even though it’s very challenging doing a startup and all I can say is I am still learning and it makes me hungry to try and do better." Couldn't even make it a full sentence without contradicting himself. This is definitely not how to do an apology either.
- fourstar 14y ago
  Exactly what I was thinking. This is a classic foot-in-mouth case where he didn't understand the implications of his actions. Isn't pretty obvious that acting like a brat was going to blow up in his face? To a fairly regular YC member at that? Additionally, didn't this same guy say he wasn't going to apologize? Contradictions everywhere...
Cushman 14y ago
I'm not sure what I would need to see to believe that someone who was such an asshole isn't anymore, but this ain't it.
- joshdotsmith 14y ago
  Hear, hear, Justice Stewart. [0] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
wahsd 14y ago
Ouch, Ross, you're getting a well deserved flogging. In case your apology was just a step in the direction of understanding that you are probably kind of an ass, I think you owe it to yourself to make more steps in that direction and then changing. I can only imagine what it must feel like to deal with such a public flogging among your peers, so I am even somewhat sympathetic, but I hope you take this experience as a humbling experience that makes you accept and internalize that it might just be that so many people might just not be wrong. I look forward to you emerging as only having an asshole, and not you being it.
orangethirty 14y ago
I don't get why do small startups screw up small apologies. Here is a simple guide. 1. Understand the problem. What/why/how/who/when did you do wrong ? 2.Contact said person and try to make things right by fixing the issue. Key word is try, but do it genuinely. 3. Write a good press release in the form of a blog post. Title it: Our apology for $problem. 4. In the press release include: - We are sorry this happened. - This is how we are fixing/going to fix it. - If you have been wronged by this get in touch at $email. - Thank everyone for their feedback. 5. Publish a second press release as a blog post stating what you are doing to prevent $problem. 6. With the gained attention, market a new product/service/special to show people you are focused on doing good busines. Call it the "We are sorry special pack" or whatever. Make sure to post it on every social media site out there so that people know you are taking care of your customers.
- noibl 14y ago
  You were doing well up until: > With the gained attention, market a new product
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    What's wrong with that? This is a business we are talking about, not a charity. Anytime a business finds itself in a good position to profit it should. A blunder is a great way to get new customers if you handle it well. For one, people will have seen your customer service in action. Nothing says trust me like showing people that you can make up for stupid mistakes. After all, customers just want to be done right. Two, you will get a ton of attention, mostly being free! Its like a second launch for crying out loud. Now its the time to show people what you offer. But dont just show them a catalog. Do it in a manner that is parallel to the issue at hand. Did you send a Darth Vader figure to someone who ordered a Luke Skywalker one? Apologize and make a special sale on both figures. Three, I believe you think that all of this should happen in a short time-frame. Not at all. You should let some bit of time pass by (but not too much) in order to let anger calm down. On week #1 you fuck up and apologize. On week #2 you make the sale. Rinse and repeat. That's how a lot of PR strategies work (ahem, AirBnB). They make shit up, stir it, calm people down, and then grow like stink. I know this will make people here angry, because some of you think the business world is all pink unicorns. Nope. Its a make it or die environment. Thats why most startup people never want to go out and make a sale. Its so much easier to just talk about traction than to hit the pavement to get some money in your pocket. Send all insults and hate to my inbox (address on profile).
thoughtcriminal 14y ago
Give it up people. Put down your rocks and go home. You are a mob. A bunch of bullies.
DenisM 14y ago
Now might be a good time to recall the School of Apology by Joel Spolsky. It's rather succinct: Apologize unreservedly, or not at all. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html from chapter 4 and further on.
ezl 14y ago
Today I learned: "publically" is apparently a valid spelling of "publicly". http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publically http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publically

44 points by rnochumo 14y ago

shawn-butler 14y ago

This whole thing seems pretty fishy. Like scripted melodrama to be honest. Whatever works, I guess.

rhizome 14y ago
If it's scripted, the blogger who originally publicized this should have something to say for themselves.
- ghayes 14y ago
  That's clearly not Danielle's intention[1]. Be careful to not accuse someone on mere speculation. [1] http://www.daniellemorrill.com/2013/01/why-i-wont-be-using-betapunch-for-user-testing/ http://www.daniellemorrill.com/2013/01/why-i-wont-be-using-b...
- dmor 14y ago
  I would not do that. I know you've all seen that I will do a lot of things for growth, but I won't be dishonest.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    It's nothing personal, the sheer thinness of this apology calls the whole incident into question.
parfe 14y ago
You think someone purposely praised a competitor's service, brought up previous misdeeds by betapunch, and had a public argument as a scripted drama to promote...?

SparrowOS 14y ago

employer, not employee

jessaustin 14y ago

It would be better if he had specifically promised not to share user tests with the general public in future. This almost feels like, "now I know I have to apologize when I share my users' private data, and in future I will apologize when I do that".

mingpan 14y ago

I can't imagine what he was originally thinking.

ralphos 14y ago
Perhaps "any publicity is good publicity" - at the end of the day, he's had two posts about Betapunch on the front page of HN as a result of all this, and I doubt people will remember this whole episode in a few weeks.

zdgman 14y ago

It is interesting to note how even the apology is more directed at discussing BetaPunch and learning rather than apologizing. How does "Why I won't be closing down BetaPunch" have anything to do with the apology? Seems out of place and still shows a lack of understanding. Leave off all discussion of why you won't be closing BetaPunch and just focus on admitting you screwed up (which was done) and detailing how you will make it right.

smegel 14y ago
That was my take on it too. If your going to apologize, why not call it an apology...
notatoad 14y ago
It's clearly a reference to Danielle's original blog post. He wanted to format his title "Why i won't be..." and "closing down betapunch" must have been the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure such an overwhelmingly negative (and popular) blog post calling out your company as kind of shitty makes you consider shutting down when you're a small operation.
- joshdotsmith 14y ago
  It's possible there's some SEO strategery going on here, too. </conspiracy>
  - minimaxir 14y ago
    It's worth noting that this article is now #4 when Googling "betapunch". Danielle's article is now #5. It's progress!
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
TallboyOne 14y ago
I can't agree more, but I can also empathize with someone who has been programming their life with no real PR-type job, and runs their company as a one man show.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jblock 14y ago

There's almost no sincerity here. I don't like being catty and publicly antagonizing people, but this guy needs to re-evaluate whether he can be the public face of his business. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5034760 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5034760 That's just childish behavior.

joshwayne 14y ago

No part of this addresses what he did wrong or what he will do differently in the future. The title alone tells me he's just trying to get the last word in, even if it's that he's sorry.

zopticity 14y ago

I'm not sure whether this was a marketing stunt or the betapunch guys didn't know how to act professionally. Honestly, someone at betapunch should have stepped in and indicated the problem. I'm not even sure why it took two days for a formal apology, it should have been done much sooner than that. Betapunch guys need to hire the right employees to handle PR and interact with people because this post shows those interactive skills are not his strengths.

rhizome 14y ago
Weekend news cycle, but what do you mean "employees" plural?
MJR 14y ago
There's no betapunch "guys" - It's just him. There's no one to step in and there's no one to hire - this an app run by a single person. He doesn't have income to be able to hire people to take care of this for him. He got himself into this mess and he's trying to get himself out of it.

maskedinvader 14y ago

can some one be kind enough to give TL DR version of what this guy did ? i read the post nut wasnt clear what exactly happened with the customer !

matznerd 14y ago
He publicly posted private info from "customers" who used his software and berated those who complained or used competitors.
- maskedinvader 14y ago
  thanks for that.

michaelhoffman 14y ago

This is a really odd post. Has anyone called for BetaPunch to be closed down? This seems like a straw man. If you want to apologize, just apologize. It's not the time for more self-marketing.

rhizome 14y ago
Not if he doesn't think he has anything to apologize for.

eduardordm 14y ago

Danielle accepted his apologies and commented on his blog. Hopefully that gesture made him learn something - because by reading his apologies I feel he didn't fully understand what happened. "I completely understand and respect your reasoning." There are many things that I respect and understand but don't agree. I just hope this is not the case.

jetti 14y ago

"I won’t make any excuses for my actions even though it’s very challenging doing a startup and all I can say is I am still learning and it makes me hungry to try and do better." Couldn't even make it a full sentence without contradicting himself. This is definitely not how to do an apology either.

fourstar 14y ago
Exactly what I was thinking. This is a classic foot-in-mouth case where he didn't understand the implications of his actions. Isn't pretty obvious that acting like a brat was going to blow up in his face? To a fairly regular YC member at that? Additionally, didn't this same guy say he wasn't going to apologize? Contradictions everywhere...

Cushman 14y ago

I'm not sure what I would need to see to believe that someone who was such an asshole isn't anymore, but this ain't it.

joshdotsmith 14y ago
Hear, hear, Justice Stewart. [0] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

wahsd 14y ago

Ouch, Ross, you're getting a well deserved flogging. In case your apology was just a step in the direction of understanding that you are probably kind of an ass, I think you owe it to yourself to make more steps in that direction and then changing. I can only imagine what it must feel like to deal with such a public flogging among your peers, so I am even somewhat sympathetic, but I hope you take this experience as a humbling experience that makes you accept and internalize that it might just be that so many people might just not be wrong. I look forward to you emerging as only having an asshole, and not you being it.

orangethirty 14y ago

I don't get why do small startups screw up small apologies. Here is a simple guide. 1. Understand the problem. What/why/how/who/when did you do wrong ? 2.Contact said person and try to make things right by fixing the issue. Key word is try, but do it genuinely. 3. Write a good press release in the form of a blog post. Title it: Our apology for $problem. 4. In the press release include: - We are sorry this happened. - This is how we are fixing/going to fix it. - If you have been wronged by this get in touch at $email. - Thank everyone for their feedback. 5. Publish a second press release as a blog post stating what you are doing to prevent $problem. 6. With the gained attention, market a new product/service/special to show people you are focused on doing good busines. Call it the "We are sorry special pack" or whatever. Make sure to post it on every social media site out there so that people know you are taking care of your customers.

noibl 14y ago
You were doing well up until: > With the gained attention, market a new product
- orangethirty 14y ago
  What's wrong with that? This is a business we are talking about, not a charity. Anytime a business finds itself in a good position to profit it should. A blunder is a great way to get new customers if you handle it well. For one, people will have seen your customer service in action. Nothing says trust me like showing people that you can make up for stupid mistakes. After all, customers just want to be done right. Two, you will get a ton of attention, mostly being free! Its like a second launch for crying out loud. Now its the time to show people what you offer. But dont just show them a catalog. Do it in a manner that is parallel to the issue at hand. Did you send a Darth Vader figure to someone who ordered a Luke Skywalker one? Apologize and make a special sale on both figures. Three, I believe you think that all of this should happen in a short time-frame. Not at all. You should let some bit of time pass by (but not too much) in order to let anger calm down. On week #1 you fuck up and apologize. On week #2 you make the sale. Rinse and repeat. That's how a lot of PR strategies work (ahem, AirBnB). They make shit up, stir it, calm people down, and then grow like stink. I know this will make people here angry, because some of you think the business world is all pink unicorns. Nope. Its a make it or die environment. Thats why most startup people never want to go out and make a sale. Its so much easier to just talk about traction than to hit the pavement to get some money in your pocket. Send all insults and hate to my inbox (address on profile).

thoughtcriminal 14y ago

Give it up people. Put down your rocks and go home. You are a mob. A bunch of bullies.

DenisM 14y ago

Now might be a good time to recall the School of Apology by Joel Spolsky. It's rather succinct: Apologize unreservedly, or not at all. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html from chapter 4 and further on.

ezl 14y ago

Today I learned: "publically" is apparently a valid spelling of "publicly". http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publically http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publically