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Neil Strauss is a writer. His last book was about his descent and experiences once he got into the world of pick up artists, guys who follow a system to pick up

Neil Strauss is a writer. His last book was about his descent and experiences once he got into the world of pick up artists, guys who follow a system to pick up women. Ferriss sells hope about the better life, living a life that would normally be above your means. The secret agent life is part of that dream.

tptacek 18y ago
My impression was that "The Game" was credulous and a bit sleazy. Am I wrong? Is Strauss actually a good writer/reporter?
- trickjarrett 18y ago
  Oh no the entire concept is sleazy and skeezy, but it's still a story about normal guys who have zero confidence and see the world as a system with rules. But it's wrapped in these stories of a rockstar life, living in Hollywood, pursuing starlets, and learning the ability to "make" women lust for you. The story though is entertaining. I'm not supporting the concept, but it's got an allure. To learn to be a Casanova, could - according to these people he talks about, and in a sense, him - be within the grasp of any guy. It's learning how to be more attractive without having to get in shape (though getting in shape is a major boost.) It's probably not a book for everyone, but if you read it for entertainment and not knowledge, you'll enjoy it I think.
- jskopek 18y ago
  If you're asking about the quality of his writing, it's up to snuff. That said, having read his last book and excerpts from this one, it's probably not fair to try and compare him to a journalist. Neil chases stories and ideas that are both a little crazy and secretly appealing to most men. Let's face it, all of us guys have wished at some point or other that they could seduce any women they wanted. In the same way, a lot of us have probably wondered what it would be like to live a spy lifestyle, or to have bank accounts in exclusive foreign countries. This is basically just the equivalent of a harlequin novel, but for guys.
  - marvin 18y ago
    Seriously, harlequin novels? That implies that books like these are both a dime-a-dozen and uncreative in addition to being fictional - nothing could be further from the truth. Strauss' writing is interesting precisely because it's about really crazy subjects that no one else writes about, or at least where the existing literature is aimed at very narrow audiences. I don't know about the "quality of writing"; this seems to be a quality you can define to mean just about anything. I agree that some of Strauss' plot devices are pretty lame and predictable - you'd probably not want to discuss his technique in a literature program. And like all supposedly "real" novels, there's probably a decent amount of distortions and exaggerations. But his books are engaging, and very much in the direction of "satisfy intellectual curiosity" that I love. No one is supposed to be manipulating social situations like the characters of "The Game", and yet it happens. I found it eye-opening in a lot of ways, and it brings a host of new questions: what is "genuine" social interaction? How much of people's personality is learned and internalized behavior? How much of sexual attraction is? Should you try to change your personality for something that is supposedly better, and can it be done? In relation to dominance/submission in social situation (the implicit structure of command and leadership that automatically arises when a group of people meets), how much is genuine (or "natural" - what does "natural" even mean?) and to what degrees do natural leaders actively manipulate the people around them? You shouldn't read books just for some supposed literary value, the real value comes from the questions you have when you're done.
- wallflower 18y ago
  My impression of "The Game" and perusing online forums where average guys who met their goals (usually dating one or two attractive women or beyond) was that those who succeeded in becoming successful at pick-up had accumulated enough experience (approaching, being rejected, follow-up encounters, escalating, taking the lead). Similar to the old koan about how many businesses a successful entrepreneur most fail at before they succeed, I think after hundreds of encounters - you start to gain the benefits of experience. I've met and talked to a couple of these pick up artists - and they've pretty much told me they can analyze an interaction in real-time at a meta-level and know what they can do (or more likely, what their client should be doing). There is one downside to all of the pickup techniques - it emphasizes that there is a method to the madness (and encourages subscription-based revenue - e.g. get the latest book/podcast etc.) - while from what I've observed, successful pick up artists could basically walk up to any woman (if they wanted) and say "I like peanut butter." and go from there.
  - eru 18y ago
    Looks like it basically the technique just gives you an excuse for practising? And the practise makes the master?
    - redrobot5050 18y ago
      Basically yes. To sum a lot of it up, PTAs basically believe that "closing" a girl is a lot like "closing a sale". It is something that can be taught, and that can develop into a sixth sense or instinct. Aside from "canned acts/memorized responses" they also rely on something called Neurolinguistic programming, which is basically a way of phrasing questions to get a desired answer. Rather than ask "What don't you like about me?", they might ask something along the lines of "What about me intimidates you?" NLP allows the other person think they decided to sleep with you, not the other way around. If you saw Magnolia (by Paul Thomas Anderson) then you'd recognize that Tom Cruise's character is loosely based off Ross Jefferies, the creator of "Speed Seduction", which was the first pick-up-routine to be based off NLP.
    - qaexl 18y ago
      Yes, it is that "practice makes the master". It is more about social engineering applied in a different context. It is like any other skill. You learn enough about it until you understand the rules, then you practice it even more until you forget about those rules.
- menloparkbum 18y ago
  Is Strauss actually a good writer/reporter? My take on Strauss is that he's a prep school kid trying to play Hunter S. Thompson. His writing is good. His topics are slightly edgy but still pretty safe. They're also the things nerds fantasize about... being a casanova or rock star or james bond or hanging out with porn stars.
  - discojesus 18y ago
    "My take on Strauss is that he's a prep school kid trying to play Hunter S. Thompson." +1 for nailing it. He's not nearly as insufferable as Tim Ferriss, but it certainly seems like he's in the same zip code sometimes.
mattmaroon 18y ago
He's one of the best narrative non-fiction storytellers out there. Regardless of your thoughts on The Game's subject, the book was well-written. I've read a few of the autobiographies he co-wrote. Most were very well-done. The only one I didn't care for was the Marilyn Manson one. It may have just been my distaste for the subject, but I felt like the whole thing came off as too whiny (not to mention boring) which is at least partially Neil's fault for not controlling the tone better.

tptacek 18y ago

My impression was that "The Game" was credulous and a bit sleazy. Am I wrong? Is Strauss actually a good writer/reporter?

trickjarrett 18y ago
Oh no the entire concept is sleazy and skeezy, but it's still a story about normal guys who have zero confidence and see the world as a system with rules. But it's wrapped in these stories of a rockstar life, living in Hollywood, pursuing starlets, and learning the ability to "make" women lust for you. The story though is entertaining. I'm not supporting the concept, but it's got an allure. To learn to be a Casanova, could - according to these people he talks about, and in a sense, him - be within the grasp of any guy. It's learning how to be more attractive without having to get in shape (though getting in shape is a major boost.) It's probably not a book for everyone, but if you read it for entertainment and not knowledge, you'll enjoy it I think.
jskopek 18y ago
If you're asking about the quality of his writing, it's up to snuff. That said, having read his last book and excerpts from this one, it's probably not fair to try and compare him to a journalist. Neil chases stories and ideas that are both a little crazy and secretly appealing to most men. Let's face it, all of us guys have wished at some point or other that they could seduce any women they wanted. In the same way, a lot of us have probably wondered what it would be like to live a spy lifestyle, or to have bank accounts in exclusive foreign countries. This is basically just the equivalent of a harlequin novel, but for guys.
- marvin 18y ago
  Seriously, harlequin novels? That implies that books like these are both a dime-a-dozen and uncreative in addition to being fictional - nothing could be further from the truth. Strauss' writing is interesting precisely because it's about really crazy subjects that no one else writes about, or at least where the existing literature is aimed at very narrow audiences. I don't know about the "quality of writing"; this seems to be a quality you can define to mean just about anything. I agree that some of Strauss' plot devices are pretty lame and predictable - you'd probably not want to discuss his technique in a literature program. And like all supposedly "real" novels, there's probably a decent amount of distortions and exaggerations. But his books are engaging, and very much in the direction of "satisfy intellectual curiosity" that I love. No one is supposed to be manipulating social situations like the characters of "The Game", and yet it happens. I found it eye-opening in a lot of ways, and it brings a host of new questions: what is "genuine" social interaction? How much of people's personality is learned and internalized behavior? How much of sexual attraction is? Should you try to change your personality for something that is supposedly better, and can it be done? In relation to dominance/submission in social situation (the implicit structure of command and leadership that automatically arises when a group of people meets), how much is genuine (or "natural" - what does "natural" even mean?) and to what degrees do natural leaders actively manipulate the people around them? You shouldn't read books just for some supposed literary value, the real value comes from the questions you have when you're done.
wallflower 18y ago
My impression of "The Game" and perusing online forums where average guys who met their goals (usually dating one or two attractive women or beyond) was that those who succeeded in becoming successful at pick-up had accumulated enough experience (approaching, being rejected, follow-up encounters, escalating, taking the lead). Similar to the old koan about how many businesses a successful entrepreneur most fail at before they succeed, I think after hundreds of encounters - you start to gain the benefits of experience. I've met and talked to a couple of these pick up artists - and they've pretty much told me they can analyze an interaction in real-time at a meta-level and know what they can do (or more likely, what their client should be doing). There is one downside to all of the pickup techniques - it emphasizes that there is a method to the madness (and encourages subscription-based revenue - e.g. get the latest book/podcast etc.) - while from what I've observed, successful pick up artists could basically walk up to any woman (if they wanted) and say "I like peanut butter." and go from there.
- eru 18y ago
  Looks like it basically the technique just gives you an excuse for practising? And the practise makes the master?
  - redrobot5050 18y ago
    Basically yes. To sum a lot of it up, PTAs basically believe that "closing" a girl is a lot like "closing a sale". It is something that can be taught, and that can develop into a sixth sense or instinct. Aside from "canned acts/memorized responses" they also rely on something called Neurolinguistic programming, which is basically a way of phrasing questions to get a desired answer. Rather than ask "What don't you like about me?", they might ask something along the lines of "What about me intimidates you?" NLP allows the other person think they decided to sleep with you, not the other way around. If you saw Magnolia (by Paul Thomas Anderson) then you'd recognize that Tom Cruise's character is loosely based off Ross Jefferies, the creator of "Speed Seduction", which was the first pick-up-routine to be based off NLP.
  - qaexl 18y ago
    Yes, it is that "practice makes the master". It is more about social engineering applied in a different context. It is like any other skill. You learn enough about it until you understand the rules, then you practice it even more until you forget about those rules.
menloparkbum 18y ago
Is Strauss actually a good writer/reporter? My take on Strauss is that he's a prep school kid trying to play Hunter S. Thompson. His writing is good. His topics are slightly edgy but still pretty safe. They're also the things nerds fantasize about... being a casanova or rock star or james bond or hanging out with porn stars.
- discojesus 18y ago
  "My take on Strauss is that he's a prep school kid trying to play Hunter S. Thompson." +1 for nailing it. He's not nearly as insufferable as Tim Ferriss, but it certainly seems like he's in the same zip code sometimes.

mattmaroon 18y ago

He's one of the best narrative non-fiction storytellers out there. Regardless of your thoughts on The Game's subject, the book was well-written. I've read a few of the autobiographies he co-wrote. Most were very well-done. The only one I didn't care for was the Marilyn Manson one. It may have just been my distaste for the subject, but I felt like the whole thing came off as too whiny (not to mention boring) which is at least partially Neil's fault for not controlling the tone better.