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I don't have the book at hand now, or I could make a better example here, but I'll give it a shot. The trouble I had was with dissociating my thinking mind, or

by jmole 14y ago

I don't have the book at hand now, or I could make a better example here, but I'll give it a shot. The trouble I had was with dissociating my thinking mind, or Tolle's ego, with that of the observer mind; in reality, and materially, they are one and the same. As I remember, he draws a sharp demarcation between the two types of mind, labeling the egoic mind as a sort of curse on humanity. To me, his egoic mind parses as the rational mind, or the thinking mind. Therefore, his dismissal of this aspect of our consciousness leaves much to be desired in my case. I mean how am I supposed to read and understand his book, written in English, without the aid of a rational mind? Perhaps it's because I didn't make it past the first few pages that I didn't understand his message, but I found Chopra much more accessible in this regard. As to your question here: "Who is this "my" who has a goal in meditation" The my is me; all of me. Not just the observing me, not just the thinking me, or the feeling me, but the inseparable combination of the three.

crazydiamond 14y ago
> As to your question here: "Who is this "my" who has a goal in meditation" > The my is me; all of me. Not just the observing me, not just the thinking me, or the feeling me, but the inseparable combination of the three. Seriously, when _in_ meditation try asking or seeking this "me". Not in words or concepts but actually try to locate it. This is just my take on Tolle, don't try understanding what he says. Try being and living in "presence" or "being" or the now or mindfulness whatever you call it. It's the same thing. Then the insights come on their own. I rejected Tolle's book as being too simplistic etc around 2004 or so. After independently discovering "presence" or being, i came back to his book (around 2006) and found it to be greatly helpful. Whenever i get stuck in the mind/ego due to relationship issues or struggling with what's happening in life, I find his later chapters to be very helpful in bringing me back to clarity and presence. However, I understand that each of us will find different things helpful or bogus. I never really cared for Deepak Chopra. In my opinion he is one of those who has read a lot of Indian books and can put things well for western audiences, but he hasn't put in the mileage himself.
dgreensp 14y ago
Tolle's insight is that the rationalizing mind, which is basically a box that generates logical, verbal explanations (for internal and external phenomena that are not inherently logical), should not be allowed to direct our attention. This belief is shared by many mindfulness practitioners: that there is an epidemic of overusing the rational mind to distract ourselves from what we are thinking and feeling. We have a thought, then a feeling, and then what Tolle calls "the mind" kicks in primarily to distract us and make us feel better, not to extract new insight (though it does that too sometimes). The word "thought" here really means something we intuit, by our main mode of non-rational thinking, which typically strives for accuracy based on past experiences. Rational thinking, on the other hand, can take us very far from reality, which is what makes it so dangerous, especially since it can be fueled by motivations like obscuring reality! Awareness is yet a third function. If you are "observing the machinery" then you are successfully disidentified with it, which is a big part of Power of Now -- to realize the "mind" is not us, meaning we don't control it and we don't have to agree with it or act on it. What we can control (ultimately) is our attention.
- dgreensp 14y ago
  This distinction btw means that constantly trying to explain or internally verbalize the workings of one's mind is not mindfulness, which is more about becoming aware of what surfaces and then letting it go. I've read articles that imply to me that the author still fears letting go of the rational analysis and just being, if only for a moment, which is the real trick and what will summon the most nefarious internal resistance. Heady stuff. Still working on it for myself.

by jmole 14y ago

crazydiamond 14y ago

> As to your question here: "Who is this "my" who has a goal in meditation" > The my is me; all of me. Not just the observing me, not just the thinking me, or the feeling me, but the inseparable combination of the three. Seriously, when _in_ meditation try asking or seeking this "me". Not in words or concepts but actually try to locate it. This is just my take on Tolle, don't try understanding what he says. Try being and living in "presence" or "being" or the now or mindfulness whatever you call it. It's the same thing. Then the insights come on their own. I rejected Tolle's book as being too simplistic etc around 2004 or so. After independently discovering "presence" or being, i came back to his book (around 2006) and found it to be greatly helpful. Whenever i get stuck in the mind/ego due to relationship issues or struggling with what's happening in life, I find his later chapters to be very helpful in bringing me back to clarity and presence. However, I understand that each of us will find different things helpful or bogus. I never really cared for Deepak Chopra. In my opinion he is one of those who has read a lot of Indian books and can put things well for western audiences, but he hasn't put in the mileage himself.

dgreensp 14y ago

Tolle's insight is that the rationalizing mind, which is basically a box that generates logical, verbal explanations (for internal and external phenomena that are not inherently logical), should not be allowed to direct our attention. This belief is shared by many mindfulness practitioners: that there is an epidemic of overusing the rational mind to distract ourselves from what we are thinking and feeling. We have a thought, then a feeling, and then what Tolle calls "the mind" kicks in primarily to distract us and make us feel better, not to extract new insight (though it does that too sometimes). The word "thought" here really means something we intuit, by our main mode of non-rational thinking, which typically strives for accuracy based on past experiences. Rational thinking, on the other hand, can take us very far from reality, which is what makes it so dangerous, especially since it can be fueled by motivations like obscuring reality! Awareness is yet a third function. If you are "observing the machinery" then you are successfully disidentified with it, which is a big part of Power of Now -- to realize the "mind" is not us, meaning we don't control it and we don't have to agree with it or act on it. What we can control (ultimately) is our attention.

dgreensp 14y ago
This distinction btw means that constantly trying to explain or internally verbalize the workings of one's mind is not mindfulness, which is more about becoming aware of what surfaces and then letting it go. I've read articles that imply to me that the author still fears letting go of the rational analysis and just being, if only for a moment, which is the real trick and what will summon the most nefarious internal resistance. Heady stuff. Still working on it for myself.