20 ms·

But everyone sees the tedium. The tedium is obvious. You go in, you sit at a desk all day typing, and you go home. This is obviously not the case for every job,

by benaiah 14y ago

But everyone sees the tedium. The tedium is obvious. You go in, you sit at a desk all day typing, and you go home. This is obviously not the case for every job, and very simplified, but it's the case in most jobs, and, more importantly, it's the popular conception of programming. The blog posts explain the gold at the end of the rainbow - why programming is enjoyable. Many people write posts on why exercise is rewarding, yet exercise is often soul-crushingly tedious. Everyone knows about the tedium - it's obvious. The light at the end of the tunnel is not. It's also pragmatic - people don't want or need to be reminded that coding can be boring, so posts on that don't get as many views. They do exist in large number, however (the best example that comes to mind is the one on how it takes ten years to master programming - don't remember the link off the top of my head).

frendiversity 14y ago
Yet industries like the game industry are dominated and run by non-technical business leaders who use this to their political advantage- to the point of driving programmers like slaves. "Programming games is fun, right? So you won't mind working over the weekend, right? If not, we'll get the new hires to take over your project." and so forth. People might see that programming is tedious, but "everything you say can and will be used against you" as political leverage and they don't care what they see, only what they can use as proof to devalue the skill you have that they don't. I'd like to see more blog posts entitled "programming is fucking hard" and "I bashed my brains out all weekend to show off this barely functioning hack and my kidneys ache from the caffeine overload." False modesty for the sake of "making it look easy" might benefit you as an individual by looking cool or elite or levelheaded, but it devalues the skill commodity and community as a whole. I also think that the majority of the population has absolutely no idea of the work involved in your typical program, which leads to, as one simple example: the stereotypical relative asking you to make his great App idea, with absolutely no concept that it would take 6 months of 12 hour days.
- xauronx 14y ago
  The problem is that other programmers don't care about posts like that, so they'd never be read. Or if they do read them it'll just be to tell you how completely idiotic you are for taking that long to figure that problem out. Or that they could have done it in a week. I don't know about you, but I enjoy reading articles about people succeeding and enjoying what we're all doing. Like, if you were pushing shopping carts would you rather read about people surfing on top of them or bitching about how terrible their lives are?
  - frendiversity 14y ago
    If you enjoy reading those articles so much, would you mind scanning through this pile of old newspapers I've got in my garage? I'll let you do it for $20.
    - xauronx 14y ago
      I'm not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make.
      - frendiversity 14y ago
        I don't have to make a point, I just have to cut down your argument with some evidence you agree with. This is how you con programmers into writing programs for you. I have watched it happen half a dozen times now.
        xauronx 14y ago
        No, I'm not saying you have to make a point but you have to at least make sense. What you said meant nothing to me, so I was asking for clarification, but you're obvious not looking for communication here.
        frendiversity 14y ago
        That's correct, I am not looking for communication. I am simply frustrating your ability to make a valid argument. Inevitably I can use this tactic to persuade you to do something for me.
- mingpan 14y ago
  I think this is a real issue, but is separate from the original point of this thread. The same thing happens to a much larger degree to artists, musicians, and all sorts of creative types. It's a job that enough people enjoy that there's a large supply of employees and at least some of them are willing to accept hard hours or mediocre pay in order to do what they love for a living.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]

by benaiah 14y ago

frendiversity 14y ago

Yet industries like the game industry are dominated and run by non-technical business leaders who use this to their political advantage- to the point of driving programmers like slaves. "Programming games is fun, right? So you won't mind working over the weekend, right? If not, we'll get the new hires to take over your project." and so forth. People might see that programming is tedious, but "everything you say can and will be used against you" as political leverage and they don't care what they see, only what they can use as proof to devalue the skill you have that they don't. I'd like to see more blog posts entitled "programming is fucking hard" and "I bashed my brains out all weekend to show off this barely functioning hack and my kidneys ache from the caffeine overload." False modesty for the sake of "making it look easy" might benefit you as an individual by looking cool or elite or levelheaded, but it devalues the skill commodity and community as a whole. I also think that the majority of the population has absolutely no idea of the work involved in your typical program, which leads to, as one simple example: the stereotypical relative asking you to make his great App idea, with absolutely no concept that it would take 6 months of 12 hour days.

xauronx 14y ago
The problem is that other programmers don't care about posts like that, so they'd never be read. Or if they do read them it'll just be to tell you how completely idiotic you are for taking that long to figure that problem out. Or that they could have done it in a week. I don't know about you, but I enjoy reading articles about people succeeding and enjoying what we're all doing. Like, if you were pushing shopping carts would you rather read about people surfing on top of them or bitching about how terrible their lives are?
- frendiversity 14y ago
  If you enjoy reading those articles so much, would you mind scanning through this pile of old newspapers I've got in my garage? I'll let you do it for $20.
  - xauronx 14y ago
    I'm not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make.
    - frendiversity 14y ago
      I don't have to make a point, I just have to cut down your argument with some evidence you agree with. This is how you con programmers into writing programs for you. I have watched it happen half a dozen times now.
      - xauronx 14y ago
        No, I'm not saying you have to make a point but you have to at least make sense. What you said meant nothing to me, so I was asking for clarification, but you're obvious not looking for communication here.
        frendiversity 14y ago
        That's correct, I am not looking for communication. I am simply frustrating your ability to make a valid argument. Inevitably I can use this tactic to persuade you to do something for me.
mingpan 14y ago
I think this is a real issue, but is separate from the original point of this thread. The same thing happens to a much larger degree to artists, musicians, and all sorts of creative types. It's a job that enough people enjoy that there's a large supply of employees and at least some of them are willing to accept hard hours or mediocre pay in order to do what they love for a living.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]