3 ms·

The TV licence inspectors are employees of whichever private company the contract is with at the time (Capita last time I checked, but that was a while ago). As

The TV licence inspectors are employees of whichever private company the contract is with at the time (Capita last time I checked, but that was a while ago). As such, they have no powers beyond those of any other citizen; their doorstep tactics are essentially to ask if they can come in, ask to look around, and try to catch people out in conversation. The web has numerous examples of people with no TV, who have told the relevant body this, and yet nonetheless receive an endless stream of threatening letters. The letters tend to follow the same pattern; polite reminders to harsh reminders to threats of discovery and huge fines, and then back to polite reminders again. Essentially, their model is to assume that anyone without a TV is lying, and does have a TV. It's probably quite effective and certainly a lot cheaper than trying to keep track of who actually doesn't have a TV. So, if you've got a TV (that you use to receive broadcast transmissions - you don't need a licence just to own the TV, you need it for some of its possible uses) in the UK and you have no TV licence, you can be pretty sure that you can ignore the letters and, should a private citizen working for Capita come to the door, you need not answer or let them in or even talk to them. The only way they could demand entry would be with a suitable court document and accompanied by an officer of the court (who frankly has better things to do with his time), but to get that document they need reasonable evidence, and simply not having a TV licence is not actually considered evidence of illegally using a TV to receive broadcast transmissions.

gadders 14y ago
Are detector vans real? I know the Post Office IT arm used to have a massive database of license payers and TV owners. I was never sure whether the vans were more than an urban myth.
- adnam 14y ago
  Detector vans are a PR stunt to frighten people. Nobody has ever been prosecuted based on evidence gathered from a detector van. They can be used to get search warrants though.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  It was certainly possible to detect the operation of TVs once; the old-school CRT boxes had big oscillators in that emitted EM radiation. I don't know about modern TVs; for all I know they have a different method of operation now. That said, it requires not just the equipment to do so, but also the competence and training, and whilst it's not impossible, licence inspectors are just whoever Capita managed to hire that month; maintaining a cadre of competent people to operate that equipment would be a headache and an expense that Capita simply aren't interested in. Far, far cheaper to simply have that big list of addresses (I understand they've got a list of every address in the UK that ever had a TV licence associated with it) and just assume that every address on that list that doesn't currently have a TV licence is a licence-dodger. Every so often it presumably gets pruned for addresses that no longer exist, but otherwise the rate of false positive will be a minor annoyance in the scheme and certainly not worth the hassle and expense of more sophisticated methods. Threatening letters and intimidating adverts do the job.
  - gadders 14y ago
    I knew the tech exists, I just wondered if it was ever implemented. I remember asking my Elec Eng lecturer at Uni whether they could tell between a colour and B&W TV, and he thought not.
  - finnw 14y ago
    The detectors are still operated by the BBC, not the contractors. (I know 2 former BBC detection engineers, one of whom also operated the machine.) They declined to tell me how the machine worked, sadly.
    - olgeni 14y ago
      Maybe it jammed the signal on prime time and then they just picked up the angry screams from the windows.
- alexkus 14y ago
  The vans can detect a CRT TV on the ground floor; that's about it. The database of TV owners is the easier way to catch people. In the UK if you buy or rent a TV (or other bit of equipment that can be used to watch/record TV programmes[1]) from a shop (not private sale) then the seller has a duty to collect your name and address and report this to the TV Licensing authorities. Same (I think) for people who sign up to any other form of TV programme distribution: Sky, BT Vision, Virgin Media, etc. They then look for people who've got Sky or have just bought a TV and that don't have a license. That'll get the vast majority of people. Then there's the people that either don't have a TV (or anything else similar), or who have one but don't use it to watch broadcast TV. I had a period where I didn't have a TV and used to get hassled by letter once a month. Some people in a similar situation would refuse to let the inspectors into their house and endured endless letters, phone calls and visits. I just let the bloke in to look around, he saw there was no telly and left. The letters and hassle stopped after that. The rules about what you do and don't need a TV License for make it even more difficult:- " The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders. You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD. " It really hasn't caught up with the digital age. All they've done is add endless extra layers and clauses to the legislation to make it horribly complex. 1. A gross simplication. The actual definition is even more complex (as with most UK legal stuff) than this.
  - youngtaff 14y ago
    A friend from Holland was over and they wanted to buy a Freesat receiver which of course they couldn't without a UK address, so they used mine (asked me first of course)
- madaxe 14y ago
  They're vans with a yagi glued to the top. No more a detector than clouseau was a detective. Pure scare tactics.
thisone 14y ago
I got those letters while in University. They are nasty. The people manning the phones aren't much better. As an English speaking international student, most of the ESL international students brought their letters to me and they were quite scared by them. I had to explain that everything was fine, we just needed to call the company and tell them that they didn't have a TV. That being said, most of the money from the TV license goes to the BBC, and since I'm 50/50 iPlayer and lovefilm, I don't mind paying that TV license. I'd rather better BBC shows than having to fork out for, say, Sky.
EvilTerran 14y ago
Essentially, their model is to assume that anyone without a TV is lying, and does have a TV. This is not strictly true. I've had no TV license for several years; after the first letter, I filled in the "declaration of no live TV signal" form (or whatever it's called) on their website, and since then, they haven't bothered me once. This is despite having a TV clearly visible through my living-room window (that I use exclusively for games and DVDs). Maybe I'm just lucky. That said, I feel it slightly ridiculous that you need a TV license (which is for funding the BBC) to watch live TV, even if you never watch any BBC channels -- but you don't need one to listen to BBC radio stations, or use their website, or even stream BBC shows on iPlayer after broadcast. If I didn't suspect it'd pave the way for the government to cannibalise their funding, I'd say it'd make much more sense for the BBC to be funded through general taxation instead of the current horribly over-engineered TV license system.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  "Maybe I'm just lucky." Fair enough. I think you must just have been lucky. I know people who have told them over and over and over again to no avail (and indeed, you can find many such people on the web).
- mseebach 14y ago
  I get a fairly polite "Are you sure you don't have a TV?" letter roughly once a year and renew my declaration on the website.

gadders 14y ago

Are detector vans real? I know the Post Office IT arm used to have a massive database of license payers and TV owners. I was never sure whether the vans were more than an urban myth.

adnam 14y ago
Detector vans are a PR stunt to frighten people. Nobody has ever been prosecuted based on evidence gathered from a detector van. They can be used to get search warrants though.
EliRivers 14y ago
It was certainly possible to detect the operation of TVs once; the old-school CRT boxes had big oscillators in that emitted EM radiation. I don't know about modern TVs; for all I know they have a different method of operation now. That said, it requires not just the equipment to do so, but also the competence and training, and whilst it's not impossible, licence inspectors are just whoever Capita managed to hire that month; maintaining a cadre of competent people to operate that equipment would be a headache and an expense that Capita simply aren't interested in. Far, far cheaper to simply have that big list of addresses (I understand they've got a list of every address in the UK that ever had a TV licence associated with it) and just assume that every address on that list that doesn't currently have a TV licence is a licence-dodger. Every so often it presumably gets pruned for addresses that no longer exist, but otherwise the rate of false positive will be a minor annoyance in the scheme and certainly not worth the hassle and expense of more sophisticated methods. Threatening letters and intimidating adverts do the job.
- gadders 14y ago
  I knew the tech exists, I just wondered if it was ever implemented. I remember asking my Elec Eng lecturer at Uni whether they could tell between a colour and B&W TV, and he thought not.
- finnw 14y ago
  The detectors are still operated by the BBC, not the contractors. (I know 2 former BBC detection engineers, one of whom also operated the machine.) They declined to tell me how the machine worked, sadly.
  - olgeni 14y ago
    Maybe it jammed the signal on prime time and then they just picked up the angry screams from the windows.
alexkus 14y ago
The vans can detect a CRT TV on the ground floor; that's about it. The database of TV owners is the easier way to catch people. In the UK if you buy or rent a TV (or other bit of equipment that can be used to watch/record TV programmes[1]) from a shop (not private sale) then the seller has a duty to collect your name and address and report this to the TV Licensing authorities. Same (I think) for people who sign up to any other form of TV programme distribution: Sky, BT Vision, Virgin Media, etc. They then look for people who've got Sky or have just bought a TV and that don't have a license. That'll get the vast majority of people. Then there's the people that either don't have a TV (or anything else similar), or who have one but don't use it to watch broadcast TV. I had a period where I didn't have a TV and used to get hassled by letter once a month. Some people in a similar situation would refuse to let the inspectors into their house and endured endless letters, phone calls and visits. I just let the bloke in to look around, he saw there was no telly and left. The letters and hassle stopped after that. The rules about what you do and don't need a TV License for make it even more difficult:- " The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders. You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD. " It really hasn't caught up with the digital age. All they've done is add endless extra layers and clauses to the legislation to make it horribly complex. 1. A gross simplication. The actual definition is even more complex (as with most UK legal stuff) than this.
- youngtaff 14y ago
  A friend from Holland was over and they wanted to buy a Freesat receiver which of course they couldn't without a UK address, so they used mine (asked me first of course)
madaxe 14y ago
They're vans with a yagi glued to the top. No more a detector than clouseau was a detective. Pure scare tactics.

thisone 14y ago

I got those letters while in University. They are nasty. The people manning the phones aren't much better. As an English speaking international student, most of the ESL international students brought their letters to me and they were quite scared by them. I had to explain that everything was fine, we just needed to call the company and tell them that they didn't have a TV. That being said, most of the money from the TV license goes to the BBC, and since I'm 50/50 iPlayer and lovefilm, I don't mind paying that TV license. I'd rather better BBC shows than having to fork out for, say, Sky.

EvilTerran 14y ago

Essentially, their model is to assume that anyone without a TV is lying, and does have a TV. This is not strictly true. I've had no TV license for several years; after the first letter, I filled in the "declaration of no live TV signal" form (or whatever it's called) on their website, and since then, they haven't bothered me once. This is despite having a TV clearly visible through my living-room window (that I use exclusively for games and DVDs). Maybe I'm just lucky. That said, I feel it slightly ridiculous that you need a TV license (which is for funding the BBC) to watch live TV, even if you never watch any BBC channels -- but you don't need one to listen to BBC radio stations, or use their website, or even stream BBC shows on iPlayer after broadcast. If I didn't suspect it'd pave the way for the government to cannibalise their funding, I'd say it'd make much more sense for the BBC to be funded through general taxation instead of the current horribly over-engineered TV license system.

EliRivers 14y ago
"Maybe I'm just lucky." Fair enough. I think you must just have been lucky. I know people who have told them over and over and over again to no avail (and indeed, you can find many such people on the web).
mseebach 14y ago
I get a fairly polite "Are you sure you don't have a TV?" letter roughly once a year and renew my declaration on the website.