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> Netflix Super HD requires that your Internet Provider is part of the Netflix Open Connect network. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? What the fuck happened to net

> Netflix Super HD requires that your Internet Provider is part of the Netflix Open Connect network. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? What the fuck happened to net neutrality? The WHOLE POINT of the internet is that you don't have to deal with this sort of shit. And people wonder why piracy still exists. I can get a 1080p copy of a movie from torrents no matter what ISP I'm on.

Scorponok 14y ago
I assume they'll want to set up edge caches at all the ISPs or something before going live with this, to save on their bandwidth costs?
cynicalkane 14y ago
Piracy still exists because Netflix requires infrastructure to give you very high bandwidth movies at zero marginal cost?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  If it costs more, then charge more. "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem" - Gabe Newell
  - cynicalkane 14y ago
    Imagine the following scenario. Netflix: Okay, everyone can have HD movies now, but they cost more. Also, only if your ISP supports it because hey these require 5Mbps from edge locations. So it's the same as before just more expensive. w1ntermute: What the fuck? They want to charge extra money for movies that my ISP is capable of delivering for free? This is why piracy exists.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      That's a non sequitur. Why should the ISP have to "support" it in the first place?
ajross 14y ago
To be fair: net neutrality as a policy is intended to protect the content providers from unfair pseudo-extortion and competition from the (literally entrenched, and in some cases monopolistic) consumer ISPs. The point was to prevent Comcast from making a deal with Microsoft for fast Bing searches and then squeezing Google, etc... What's happening here is the opposite: Netflix can't afford the data at the price they're charging, so they cut a deal with Comcast where they (presumably) pay them for the right to cache static content locally. It no less onerous to the consumer, but it doesn't fit the policy goals that net neutrality is designed to enforce. That said, your last point is dead on. Netflix has invented yet another way of making their service harder and more annoying to use for the poor consumer then The Pirate Bay.
- elemeno 14y ago
  > That said, your last point is dead on. Netflix has invented yet another way of making their service harder and more annoying to use for the poor consumer then The Pirate Bay. No they haven't. They're simply offering a 'better' service to a subset of their customers, they're not stopping you from watching a film if you don't use an ISP that peers with them.
- shardling 14y ago
  I believe netflix already caches regular content locally with ISPs.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  "Netflix can't afford the data at the price they're charging, so they cut a deal with Comcast where they (presumably) pay them for the right to cache static content locally." Ironically, my 105mbps cable connection with Comcast. The SuperHD service tells me to "Ask my ISP to join the Open Connect Network", helpfully.
elemeno 14y ago
No, it's a purely practical consideration. Within your ISP's network bandwidth is cheap, once it has to move over to other networks then those 5Mbps streams start adding up quite quickly. If 1600 people on an ISP were to steam in HD simultaneously (which really isn't a large number of people for a large ISP) then you're talking about 1GB (thats byte and not bit) of bandwidth every second. There's a reason why content distributions networks like Akamai and companies like Google tend to peer at ISPs as well. What it certainly isn't is anything to do with net neutrality, and trying to claim that it is is either born of misunderstanding what net neutrality is, or trying to be deliberately obtuse. No one is prioritising one type of traffic over another, nor are they prioritising connections to one website over another. They're simply saying that there are real practical limitations involved in offering certain services, so they're partnering with any willing ISP to offer those services.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  It was an amazing let down to see this. Despite my 100mbps connection, I get a line of text that says nothing more than "Ask your ISP to join the Netflix Open Connect Network". Yeah, uhh, okay. My ISP is the largest in the country. If you can't arrange your content sharing network with them, I'm fairly sure me calling a Tier 1 CSR reading off a scripted dialog is going to make all the difference in the world.
  - pavel_lishin 14y ago
    Also, one vote never makes a difference, so why bother?
    - FireBeyond 14y ago
      The point is, and maybe I was vague about it, hence my downvotes: If Netflix is offering a service and can't even get the largest, most common ISP that their customers use to agree to their "free" peering arrangements to offer even better content, then that appears a little ... disappointing, and not particularly hope-inducing to me.
waterlesscloud 14y ago
Netflix still works fantastically well as a dvd rental service.
wmf 14y ago
Comcast happened. http://www.internap.com/2010/12/02/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you/ http://www.internap.com/2010/12/02/peering-disputes-comcast-... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/02/peers-or-not-comcast-and-level-3-slug-it-out-at-fccs-doorstep/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/02/peers-or-not-comc...
biot 14y ago
Take a chill pill, then read https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect to inform yourself what it's about. Hint: cost savings for Netflix and the ISP. The ISP can even get free storage appliance hardware from Netflix to cut their out-of-network costs for streaming Nextflix content to next to nothing (only needing to cache new content, presumably). It's equivalent to you complaining about road neutrality should a company only deliver their products via Fedex trucks. The fact that the company chooses to only deliver their goods via Fedex doesn't affect your right to drive whatever street legal vehicle you want on the highway.

Scorponok 14y ago

I assume they'll want to set up edge caches at all the ISPs or something before going live with this, to save on their bandwidth costs?

cynicalkane 14y ago

Piracy still exists because Netflix requires infrastructure to give you very high bandwidth movies at zero marginal cost?

w1ntermute 14y ago
If it costs more, then charge more. "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem" - Gabe Newell
- cynicalkane 14y ago
  Imagine the following scenario. Netflix: Okay, everyone can have HD movies now, but they cost more. Also, only if your ISP supports it because hey these require 5Mbps from edge locations. So it's the same as before just more expensive. w1ntermute: What the fuck? They want to charge extra money for movies that my ISP is capable of delivering for free? This is why piracy exists.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    That's a non sequitur. Why should the ISP have to "support" it in the first place?

ajross 14y ago

To be fair: net neutrality as a policy is intended to protect the content providers from unfair pseudo-extortion and competition from the (literally entrenched, and in some cases monopolistic) consumer ISPs. The point was to prevent Comcast from making a deal with Microsoft for fast Bing searches and then squeezing Google, etc... What's happening here is the opposite: Netflix can't afford the data at the price they're charging, so they cut a deal with Comcast where they (presumably) pay them for the right to cache static content locally. It no less onerous to the consumer, but it doesn't fit the policy goals that net neutrality is designed to enforce. That said, your last point is dead on. Netflix has invented yet another way of making their service harder and more annoying to use for the poor consumer then The Pirate Bay.

elemeno 14y ago
> That said, your last point is dead on. Netflix has invented yet another way of making their service harder and more annoying to use for the poor consumer then The Pirate Bay. No they haven't. They're simply offering a 'better' service to a subset of their customers, they're not stopping you from watching a film if you don't use an ISP that peers with them.
shardling 14y ago
I believe netflix already caches regular content locally with ISPs.
FireBeyond 14y ago
"Netflix can't afford the data at the price they're charging, so they cut a deal with Comcast where they (presumably) pay them for the right to cache static content locally." Ironically, my 105mbps cable connection with Comcast. The SuperHD service tells me to "Ask my ISP to join the Open Connect Network", helpfully.

elemeno 14y ago

No, it's a purely practical consideration. Within your ISP's network bandwidth is cheap, once it has to move over to other networks then those 5Mbps streams start adding up quite quickly. If 1600 people on an ISP were to steam in HD simultaneously (which really isn't a large number of people for a large ISP) then you're talking about 1GB (thats byte and not bit) of bandwidth every second. There's a reason why content distributions networks like Akamai and companies like Google tend to peer at ISPs as well. What it certainly isn't is anything to do with net neutrality, and trying to claim that it is is either born of misunderstanding what net neutrality is, or trying to be deliberately obtuse. No one is prioritising one type of traffic over another, nor are they prioritising connections to one website over another. They're simply saying that there are real practical limitations involved in offering certain services, so they're partnering with any willing ISP to offer those services.

FireBeyond 14y ago
It was an amazing let down to see this. Despite my 100mbps connection, I get a line of text that says nothing more than "Ask your ISP to join the Netflix Open Connect Network". Yeah, uhh, okay. My ISP is the largest in the country. If you can't arrange your content sharing network with them, I'm fairly sure me calling a Tier 1 CSR reading off a scripted dialog is going to make all the difference in the world.
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  Also, one vote never makes a difference, so why bother?
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    The point is, and maybe I was vague about it, hence my downvotes: If Netflix is offering a service and can't even get the largest, most common ISP that their customers use to agree to their "free" peering arrangements to offer even better content, then that appears a little ... disappointing, and not particularly hope-inducing to me.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

Netflix still works fantastically well as a dvd rental service.

wmf 14y ago

Comcast happened. http://www.internap.com/2010/12/02/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you/ http://www.internap.com/2010/12/02/peering-disputes-comcast-... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/02/peers-or-not-comcast-and-level-3-slug-it-out-at-fccs-doorstep/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/02/peers-or-not-comc...

biot 14y ago

Take a chill pill, then read https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect to inform yourself what it's about. Hint: cost savings for Netflix and the ISP. The ISP can even get free storage appliance hardware from Netflix to cut their out-of-network costs for streaming Nextflix content to next to nothing (only needing to cache new content, presumably). It's equivalent to you complaining about road neutrality should a company only deliver their products via Fedex trucks. The fact that the company chooses to only deliver their goods via Fedex doesn't affect your right to drive whatever street legal vehicle you want on the highway.