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[disclaimer: I'm married to the original tech/product co-founder who is no longer with the company] For the first time, I see a HN thread on a startup I know v

by sriramk 14y ago

[disclaimer: I'm married to the original tech/product co-founder who is no longer with the company] For the first time, I see a HN thread on a startup I know very well from the inside, how can I resist jumping in.? :) First, the OP is factually incorrect about one thing - True&Co doesn't have a subscription model. You get a bunch of bras in a box when you order from the site, you keep what you like. This is the same as the Warby Parker model as well as other successful startups where you need to physically experience things. Second, I'm not sure why the OP feels such animosity towards the company or the team. There are many snide comments in there, especially around funding, which seems out of place. Having said that, the women's intimates business has a few big incumbents and a huge addressable market. In the beginning, True&Co took a very 'software eats the world' approach and tried to use machine learning to fix a problem that a lot of women have. I'm not sure whether they still use a algorithm or whether they focus on tech anymore but at the time, I liked the algorithm Aarthi and her team had built out - it had great results.

DanBC 14y ago
> True&Co doesn't have a subscription model. You get a bunch of bras in a box when you order from the site, you keep what you like. That's pretty important. Just from that line it seems like a great idea. If they can keep tack of the different sizing between brands (or can help with sizing in any way) they could do well. I wish them luck!
danielpal 14y ago
What happens to the bra's that are returned? Unlike Warby Parker, I wouldn't mind trying a used pair of glasses but I doubt woman will be OK with used underwear(bra's).
- hesparrow 14y ago
  I'm not sure it would be very different to trying one on in a store - someone may have already tried on the same one.
  - danielpal 14y ago
    I am not sure you can try out bra's in a store (I am a guy). I am just glad I know you can't try out boxers!
    - danilocampos 14y ago
      How would anyone be able to buy a bra, which is an elastic device that lifts, shifts and holds the breasts – an incredibly variable bit of anatomy – without trying it on? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sousveillance/6617089103/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sousveillance/6617089103/
      - danielpal 14y ago
        You seem to imply that it is obvious that woman have to try bra's to buy them. But it's not, proof is that even woman ask this question: https://www.google.com/search?oq=can+you+try+bras+at+store&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=can+you+try+bras+at+store#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=can+you+try+bra%27s+at+store%3F&oq=can+you+try+bra%27s+at+store%3F&gs_l=serp.3..0i8i13i30.8259.8259.0.10046.1.1.0.0.0.0.596.596.5-1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.T5j7fFLVmz8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1357316858,d.dmQ&fp=2246e513cc5097bd&biw=1330&bih=695 https://www.google.com/search?oq=can+you+try+bras+at+store&#...
        danilocampos 14y ago
        You've just voluntarily lumped yourself in with Yahoo Answers folk.
      - batgaijin 14y ago
        Yeah but it's just a weird dichotomy of women buying stuff that's been tried on and dudes just buy a bunch of boxers. I would assume this company has a marked bunch as having been tried and sends those out first and they are marked as 'trial' bras.
        danilocampos 14y ago
- B0Z 14y ago
  They aren't used. It's no different than trying them on in a Victoria's Secret. Trying stuff on is a little different for women than it is men.
  - esperluette 14y ago
    Unless you are actively lactating, trying on a bra is more like trying on a shirt than like trying on a pair of boxers. And if you ARE actively lactating, the last thing you want to do is go try on bras.
borlak 14y ago
The article was very poorly written -- I couldn't even finish it..doubly surprised to see it at the top of HN.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- drjacobs 14y ago
  > "..doubly surprised to see it at the top of HN." It has "boobs" in the title. sad but true
- ceol 14y ago
  That's a shame. It was an interesting article about VCs not understanding consumers and backing startups that have no chance of succeeding. Nothing in it was exceptionally hard to understand, even for someone not engrossed in startup-culture like myself.
jordo37 14y ago
Great response and I agree that the scathing critique from this article seemed factless and tactless. True and Co. is a company I have looked at a few times and is definitely the one both my wife and I think has great potential for disruption. Seems like a good idea worth investing in and seeing if it works.
rada 14y ago
Just tried the website out and can't resist jumping in either. Sorry to be harsh but I really don't appreciate a long questionnaire with a forced sign up under the pretense of personalization when really, none is offered in the end. Why did I just spend 10 minutes filling out all the information only to be offered none of what I asked for? There has to be a term for this as it happens very often: describe a common, frustrating consumer problem thereby implying that your product will solve it; follow up with a bunch of exciting and mystery-building hand waiving; finally, unveil your cheap, run-of-the-mill product identical to all the other cheap, run-of-the-mill products already on the market. At the end of the day, the website sells the same stuff that you'd find at any lower-priced mass retailer and doesn't appear to actually curate its supposedly personalized "my shop" based on my answers. Some more impressions. One, it's rather discrediting for a "true fit" company not to offer true fit sizes such as AA for example. Two, it's rather annoying when a sales page asks for your preferences (brand, coverage, etc) and then proceeds to suggest things that are the exact opposite. Three, those impractical, showy "sexy time" bras, which seem to be 90% of the inventory, require panties to match, otherwise there is literally no point to them. Four, it's rather lame for a supposedly women-oriented website to push those fake silicone inserts as tough there is something wrong with real women's breasts. Yes, bra fit is a big problem, and yes, it's a disruption opportunity. But I fail to see how True & Co has an interesting approach. They sell the same brands as everyone else and ignore your preferences just like those overworked, disinterested sales people. The shipping is free but if you have to return anything - which at a minimum of 5 bras per shipment is virtually guaranteed - it is easier to just go to your local mass retailer and try things on.
rdl 14y ago
My girlfriend 1) buys underwear from VS (well, gets it free due to a VS credit card, some weird promotion) periodically, and would probably subscribe. She buys (new, thank god) bras from random sellers on eBay several times per year, and it's always some kind of roulette because price seems entirely uncorrelated with quality. I showed her True&Co and she likes it. It's a little different from shoes (she also seems to buy a lot from Zappos, using the buy 3 and return 2 model, not sure how that works for them...), in that you don't show off underwear as much, but for some reason I think this model will work. I'm constantly amazed at how imaginary or brand-specific sizing seems to be for female clothing. I love being able to just buy an L or XL and have it fit ok, or call up a tailor and say "would like 3 more shirts the same measurements as last time" (or do a fitting).

by sriramk 14y ago

DanBC 14y ago

> True&Co doesn't have a subscription model. You get a bunch of bras in a box when you order from the site, you keep what you like. That's pretty important. Just from that line it seems like a great idea. If they can keep tack of the different sizing between brands (or can help with sizing in any way) they could do well. I wish them luck!

danielpal 14y ago

What happens to the bra's that are returned? Unlike Warby Parker, I wouldn't mind trying a used pair of glasses but I doubt woman will be OK with used underwear(bra's).

hesparrow 14y ago
I'm not sure it would be very different to trying one on in a store - someone may have already tried on the same one.
- danielpal 14y ago
  I am not sure you can try out bra's in a store (I am a guy). I am just glad I know you can't try out boxers!
  - danilocampos 14y ago
    How would anyone be able to buy a bra, which is an elastic device that lifts, shifts and holds the breasts – an incredibly variable bit of anatomy – without trying it on? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sousveillance/6617089103/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sousveillance/6617089103/
    - danielpal 14y ago
      You seem to imply that it is obvious that woman have to try bra's to buy them. But it's not, proof is that even woman ask this question: https://www.google.com/search?oq=can+you+try+bras+at+store&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=can+you+try+bras+at+store#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=can+you+try+bra%27s+at+store%3F&oq=can+you+try+bra%27s+at+store%3F&gs_l=serp.3..0i8i13i30.8259.8259.0.10046.1.1.0.0.0.0.596.596.5-1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.T5j7fFLVmz8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1357316858,d.dmQ&fp=2246e513cc5097bd&biw=1330&bih=695 https://www.google.com/search?oq=can+you+try+bras+at+store&#...
      - danilocampos 14y ago
        You've just voluntarily lumped yourself in with Yahoo Answers folk.
    - batgaijin 14y ago
      Yeah but it's just a weird dichotomy of women buying stuff that's been tried on and dudes just buy a bunch of boxers. I would assume this company has a marked bunch as having been tried and sends those out first and they are marked as 'trial' bras.
      - danilocampos 14y ago
B0Z 14y ago
They aren't used. It's no different than trying them on in a Victoria's Secret. Trying stuff on is a little different for women than it is men.
- esperluette 14y ago
  Unless you are actively lactating, trying on a bra is more like trying on a shirt than like trying on a pair of boxers. And if you ARE actively lactating, the last thing you want to do is go try on bras.

borlak 14y ago

The article was very poorly written -- I couldn't even finish it..doubly surprised to see it at the top of HN.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
drjacobs 14y ago
> "..doubly surprised to see it at the top of HN." It has "boobs" in the title. sad but true
ceol 14y ago
That's a shame. It was an interesting article about VCs not understanding consumers and backing startups that have no chance of succeeding. Nothing in it was exceptionally hard to understand, even for someone not engrossed in startup-culture like myself.

jordo37 14y ago

Great response and I agree that the scathing critique from this article seemed factless and tactless. True and Co. is a company I have looked at a few times and is definitely the one both my wife and I think has great potential for disruption. Seems like a good idea worth investing in and seeing if it works.

rada 14y ago

Just tried the website out and can't resist jumping in either. Sorry to be harsh but I really don't appreciate a long questionnaire with a forced sign up under the pretense of personalization when really, none is offered in the end. Why did I just spend 10 minutes filling out all the information only to be offered none of what I asked for? There has to be a term for this as it happens very often: describe a common, frustrating consumer problem thereby implying that your product will solve it; follow up with a bunch of exciting and mystery-building hand waiving; finally, unveil your cheap, run-of-the-mill product identical to all the other cheap, run-of-the-mill products already on the market. At the end of the day, the website sells the same stuff that you'd find at any lower-priced mass retailer and doesn't appear to actually curate its supposedly personalized "my shop" based on my answers. Some more impressions. One, it's rather discrediting for a "true fit" company not to offer true fit sizes such as AA for example. Two, it's rather annoying when a sales page asks for your preferences (brand, coverage, etc) and then proceeds to suggest things that are the exact opposite. Three, those impractical, showy "sexy time" bras, which seem to be 90% of the inventory, require panties to match, otherwise there is literally no point to them. Four, it's rather lame for a supposedly women-oriented website to push those fake silicone inserts as tough there is something wrong with real women's breasts. Yes, bra fit is a big problem, and yes, it's a disruption opportunity. But I fail to see how True & Co has an interesting approach. They sell the same brands as everyone else and ignore your preferences just like those overworked, disinterested sales people. The shipping is free but if you have to return anything - which at a minimum of 5 bras per shipment is virtually guaranteed - it is easier to just go to your local mass retailer and try things on.

rdl 14y ago

My girlfriend 1) buys underwear from VS (well, gets it free due to a VS credit card, some weird promotion) periodically, and would probably subscribe. She buys (new, thank god) bras from random sellers on eBay several times per year, and it's always some kind of roulette because price seems entirely uncorrelated with quality. I showed her True&Co and she likes it. It's a little different from shoes (she also seems to buy a lot from Zappos, using the buy 3 and return 2 model, not sure how that works for them...), in that you don't show off underwear as much, but for some reason I think this model will work. I'm constantly amazed at how imaginary or brand-specific sizing seems to be for female clothing. I love being able to just buy an L or XL and have it fit ok, or call up a tailor and say "would like 3 more shirts the same measurements as last time" (or do a fitting).