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Silicon Valley is stucco-corporate ugly. San Francisco is charming, yet now grossly-expensive. The two are linked by decrepit transport systems that are being s

Silicon Valley is stucco-corporate ugly. San Francisco is charming, yet now grossly-expensive. The two are linked by decrepit transport systems that are being supplanted only by Google/Yahoo/Facebook's own shuttles (services that do nothing for low-wage Valley workers or entrepreneurs trying to begin new endeavors). East Bay is charming and inexpensive. There are residents and young people who discuss more than option-pool restructuring and PHP/Rails. As long as I can continue to work in San Francisco, and as long as rents stay as high as they are in that city, I'll choose to live here.

bengl3rt 14y ago
San Francisco is charming, yet now grossly-expensive. Except it's not charming at all... it's much colder than the rest of California (it honestly feels like a different planet), MUNI absolutely sucks compared to any transit system in the civilized world (NYC/Europe/parts of Asia), and the homeless problem is the worst I've seen in any major urban center. San Francisco has a long way to go before I'd consider it a world-class city.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - jspthrowaway2 14y ago
    I pass a pile of human feces at least once a week on my walk to work, and the street in front of my office smells like urine 24x7. I've caught someone taking the wheels off a car parked on the street once, at about 2 in the afternoon on a completely parallel-parked to the brim street. In the space of a four-block walk, I'm harassed by on average 8 or 9 homeless people who react to your refusal to give them change with hostility. On a recent walk in the neighborhood shortly after sundown I was accosted by someone selling heroin, who reacted to my refusal to purchase with hostility and brandished a weapon. I agree with him. A lot of people view San Francisco with rose-tinted glasses. While I have passed feces in New York on the stairs up from the subway, I'd contest that every visit I've ever made to New York has left me feeling cleaner than the average commute to SoMa.
    - mephi5t0 14y ago
      Dog's poop - maybe. Overflown garbage cans - always. But I never saw any human crap for the past 12 yrs I live in NYC. Where do you people go? :D I feel "NYC sucks so badly" vibe when I come back from a vacation in Austria, Germany or Switzerland. But NYC still rules, not sure if I would change it for San Fran; I would love to try it but good luck changing jobs for me and my spouse "to just try it out" :\
      - jspthrowaway2 14y ago
        It looked human, based on its size. This was coming up the stairs at Times Square from the 1 train, so probably a rare occurrence.
        caniszczyk 14y ago
        I see human poop all the time in SF. My favorite is this: http://ghettosf.tumblr.com/image/29770959816 http://ghettosf.tumblr.com/image/29770959816
    - epoxyhockey 14y ago
      I pass a pile of human feces at least once a week on my walk to work, and the street in front of my office smells like urine 24x7. I'm curious as to why the office building property managers don't hose down the sidewalks in front of their properties every morning. This seems to be a common practice back East.
- DanBC 14y ago
  Do you live there or just visit there? Because tourists see the crooked street and the bridge and the hills and the cable cars. They don't see the high suicide rate or the muni or etc.
  - bengl3rt 14y ago
    I have lived there in the past. Now prefer the much-maligned suburbs (specifically, Mountain View). Uber and Lyft and self-driving cars will shortly solve drinking and driving and then my final complaint about the suburbs will be gone.
- philsnow 14y ago
  "much colder than the rest of California" It's easier to put on a jacket if it's cold than to strip down if it's hot. "MUNI absolutely sucks compared to any transit system in the civilized world" It's better than pretty much everything else in California (except maybe BART? I don't take either very much).
Lewisham 14y ago
Where in the East Bay do you live? I'm currently in Santa Cruz but thinking of relocating. I haven't spent any time in East Bay, but the view from the 680 is that it's essentially the same as South Bay. I hadn't considered looking there. But things are always distorted when you view from the highway.
- textminer 14y ago
  In Oakland, I'd some nice parts of Lake Merrit, Chinatown and Temescal. Rockridge is nice, if thoroughly yuppified. Richmond's Marina Bay and El Cerrito are both thoroughly nice and BART-adjacent, if a bit too suburban and removed.
- jspthrowaway2 14y ago
  Alameda is a fabulously-kept secret. The ferry commute is splendid and with the exception of a rough area on the west side, it's like walking around Mayberry. Shopping isn't terrible. If you're like me and don't care for a bar-crawl nightlife and would prefer to stay in and read (and own a car, though this isn't as important), you'll love Alameda. Don't tell anybody how good it is to live in Alameda, though, they'll all move here.
  - philsnow 14y ago
    I <3 Alameda and wish I could afford to move there. Lucky 13 + Scolari's is Alameda's Toronado + Rosamund's (though the beer selection isn't up to par) Ark (on Park St) is one of my favorite Chinese restaurants in the bay area: hand-pulled noodles, braised egg tofu, and good green onion pancakes. Park St feels somewhat like a "small down" downtown, similar to San Luis Obispo's but without all the college bars. There are lots of beautiful Victorian-style houses, and there are some good school districts. Much of the island is on bad liquefaction zones, but there are nice parts that aren't.
  - philsnow 14y ago
    Speaking of ferry commutes, I wish there were way more ferries doing service from all points in the East and South bay to/from the peninsula. If they did, it might be feasible to do a bike commute from the East bay to more parts of the peninsula.
firefoxman1 14y ago
As someone looking to move to San Francisco, I was amazed the author said it was ever cheap. Any chances it will return to affordable-to-live as a college grad in the near future?
- textminer 14y ago
  Like you, that also floors me. Moved here in mid-2011, fresh out of grad school. Seems to be cheap when there's not a dotcom bubble, yet then we wouldn't be here. Ain't that a kick in the head.
- mc32 14y ago
  Doubtful. In the very late 80s early 90s the whole SF Bay area (SF, SJ OAK) was in a severe housing depression. Realtors* were moving out of state because of the stagnation. It's kind of incredible to think that housing was, then, actually, affordable. Doubtful of the return to that due to the new economics and land usage. Unless something drastic in zoning and mass transit were to happen, it's not. *At least two that I had heard of via my brother.
chimeracoder 14y ago
> The two are linked by decrepit transport systems As a New Yorker, the one thing that kills me every time is the fact that the CalTrain shuts down so early. I was staying in Palo Alto some months back, and I needed to get to the station by 11:59 on a Friday night, because the alternative was an incredibly expensive cab ride back. It really cut into my Friday night plans.

bengl3rt 14y ago

San Francisco is charming, yet now grossly-expensive. Except it's not charming at all... it's much colder than the rest of California (it honestly feels like a different planet), MUNI absolutely sucks compared to any transit system in the civilized world (NYC/Europe/parts of Asia), and the homeless problem is the worst I've seen in any major urban center. San Francisco has a long way to go before I'd consider it a world-class city.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- jspthrowaway2 14y ago
  I pass a pile of human feces at least once a week on my walk to work, and the street in front of my office smells like urine 24x7. I've caught someone taking the wheels off a car parked on the street once, at about 2 in the afternoon on a completely parallel-parked to the brim street. In the space of a four-block walk, I'm harassed by on average 8 or 9 homeless people who react to your refusal to give them change with hostility. On a recent walk in the neighborhood shortly after sundown I was accosted by someone selling heroin, who reacted to my refusal to purchase with hostility and brandished a weapon. I agree with him. A lot of people view San Francisco with rose-tinted glasses. While I have passed feces in New York on the stairs up from the subway, I'd contest that every visit I've ever made to New York has left me feeling cleaner than the average commute to SoMa.
  - mephi5t0 14y ago
    Dog's poop - maybe. Overflown garbage cans - always. But I never saw any human crap for the past 12 yrs I live in NYC. Where do you people go? :D I feel "NYC sucks so badly" vibe when I come back from a vacation in Austria, Germany or Switzerland. But NYC still rules, not sure if I would change it for San Fran; I would love to try it but good luck changing jobs for me and my spouse "to just try it out" :\
    - jspthrowaway2 14y ago
      It looked human, based on its size. This was coming up the stairs at Times Square from the 1 train, so probably a rare occurrence.
      - caniszczyk 14y ago
        I see human poop all the time in SF. My favorite is this: http://ghettosf.tumblr.com/image/29770959816 http://ghettosf.tumblr.com/image/29770959816
  - epoxyhockey 14y ago
    I pass a pile of human feces at least once a week on my walk to work, and the street in front of my office smells like urine 24x7. I'm curious as to why the office building property managers don't hose down the sidewalks in front of their properties every morning. This seems to be a common practice back East.
DanBC 14y ago
Do you live there or just visit there? Because tourists see the crooked street and the bridge and the hills and the cable cars. They don't see the high suicide rate or the muni or etc.
- bengl3rt 14y ago
  I have lived there in the past. Now prefer the much-maligned suburbs (specifically, Mountain View). Uber and Lyft and self-driving cars will shortly solve drinking and driving and then my final complaint about the suburbs will be gone.
philsnow 14y ago
"much colder than the rest of California" It's easier to put on a jacket if it's cold than to strip down if it's hot. "MUNI absolutely sucks compared to any transit system in the civilized world" It's better than pretty much everything else in California (except maybe BART? I don't take either very much).

Lewisham 14y ago

Where in the East Bay do you live? I'm currently in Santa Cruz but thinking of relocating. I haven't spent any time in East Bay, but the view from the 680 is that it's essentially the same as South Bay. I hadn't considered looking there. But things are always distorted when you view from the highway.

textminer 14y ago
In Oakland, I'd some nice parts of Lake Merrit, Chinatown and Temescal. Rockridge is nice, if thoroughly yuppified. Richmond's Marina Bay and El Cerrito are both thoroughly nice and BART-adjacent, if a bit too suburban and removed.
jspthrowaway2 14y ago
Alameda is a fabulously-kept secret. The ferry commute is splendid and with the exception of a rough area on the west side, it's like walking around Mayberry. Shopping isn't terrible. If you're like me and don't care for a bar-crawl nightlife and would prefer to stay in and read (and own a car, though this isn't as important), you'll love Alameda. Don't tell anybody how good it is to live in Alameda, though, they'll all move here.
- philsnow 14y ago
  I <3 Alameda and wish I could afford to move there. Lucky 13 + Scolari's is Alameda's Toronado + Rosamund's (though the beer selection isn't up to par) Ark (on Park St) is one of my favorite Chinese restaurants in the bay area: hand-pulled noodles, braised egg tofu, and good green onion pancakes. Park St feels somewhat like a "small down" downtown, similar to San Luis Obispo's but without all the college bars. There are lots of beautiful Victorian-style houses, and there are some good school districts. Much of the island is on bad liquefaction zones, but there are nice parts that aren't.
- philsnow 14y ago
  Speaking of ferry commutes, I wish there were way more ferries doing service from all points in the East and South bay to/from the peninsula. If they did, it might be feasible to do a bike commute from the East bay to more parts of the peninsula.

firefoxman1 14y ago

As someone looking to move to San Francisco, I was amazed the author said it was ever cheap. Any chances it will return to affordable-to-live as a college grad in the near future?

textminer 14y ago
Like you, that also floors me. Moved here in mid-2011, fresh out of grad school. Seems to be cheap when there's not a dotcom bubble, yet then we wouldn't be here. Ain't that a kick in the head.
mc32 14y ago
Doubtful. In the very late 80s early 90s the whole SF Bay area (SF, SJ OAK) was in a severe housing depression. Realtors* were moving out of state because of the stagnation. It's kind of incredible to think that housing was, then, actually, affordable. Doubtful of the return to that due to the new economics and land usage. Unless something drastic in zoning and mass transit were to happen, it's not. *At least two that I had heard of via my brother.

chimeracoder 14y ago

> The two are linked by decrepit transport systems As a New Yorker, the one thing that kills me every time is the fact that the CalTrain shuts down so early. I was staying in Palo Alto some months back, and I needed to get to the station by 11:59 on a Friday night, because the alternative was an incredibly expensive cab ride back. It really cut into my Friday night plans.