7 ms·

> (Straight people don't "come out") Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever

by mhurron 14y ago

> (Straight people don't "come out") Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality. In a large part of the world though, probably most of the world where you can, if you are gay you basically have to explicit come out to your closest friends and relatives to get over whatever initial shock, embarrassment, anger, violence, or whatever may occur. Far too many don't take it well.

monochromatic 14y ago
bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality Saying that this is "coming out" doesn't make it true.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  But it is true, so think about it until you get it.
  - king_jester 14y ago
    Except it's totally not, being straight in most places in the world is the default and everyone is seen through a lens of being straight. Coming out refers to revealing to people that you are not straight.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Fine, I'll yield the semantic argument. "Coming out" in the context of sexuality typically refers to homosexuals publicly expressing their preference for the first time and adjusting their public identity to match. I was attacking the idea that most aren't judged upon first expressing their sexual desires. It's important anywhere and everywhere. Bringing home a partner of a different color? Size? Class? "Looks"? Judgement is issued. In some cultures the kind of partner you're able to pull speaks directly to the honor or worth of the family. It's never not a big deal.
      - lotharbot 14y ago
        People are judged for their relationships in general. People are judged for who they have sex with based on all sorts of physical characteristics (sex, skin tone, size, looks, etc.) as well as social attributes (economics, religion, behavioral awkwardness). People are also judged for not having sex with certain people (being monogamous, or especially being a virgin over age 30). Or for people they hang out with in non-sexual relationships in general (friends from different race, class, religion, or sports fandom). Relationships of all sorts are important anywhere and everywhere and never not a big deal.
    - mhurron 14y ago
      It may be the expectation but the reality is that it may not be true. Until you take an action to express your sexuality, everyone is just expecting you to be like them. Bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend is implicitly declaring your heterosexuality, telling your family you are gay is explicitly declaring you are gay. You could also implicitly declare it by bringing home a same-sex partner. Coming out is simply expressing your sexuality.
      - king_jester 14y ago
        > Bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend is implicitly declaring your heterosexuality, telling your family you are gay is explicitly declaring you are gay. Well, if most people you know implicitly assume you are straight, bringing home the expected kind of partner doesn't declare anything because it was already assumed that you were straight. > Coming out is simply expressing your sexuality. No, coming out has its roots in being gay and explicitly revealing that information to others. The entire history of the concept and phrase of coming out exists in that context, you can't just re-contextualize it without throwing away the experiences of people who have come out in the past.
king_jester 14y ago
> Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality. No, this isn't coming out. In most places, people are seen as a default of straight. Coming refers to revealing to people you are not straight, so straight people by definition cannot come out.
- rmc 14y ago
  In most places, people are seen as a default of straight. Yes and that's wrong.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Not wrong, just playing the odds. ~95% of people are sufficiently heterosexual.
    - king_jester 14y ago
      It's not really about the odds though, it's more about creating norms and normative behavior. For folks that deviation from "normal", they tend to face microaggressions from others, and possibly outright discrimination and physical violence.
      - g8oz 14y ago
        Personally instead of tripping over myself trying not to make every permutation of human diversity feel uncomfortable, I think I'll let them just deal with their hurt feelings i.e the consequences of "microaggressions". Its character building. As for outright discrimination and violence we have laws for that.
        king_jester 14y ago
        Microaggressions aren't character building, they tend to be the most common way racism and sexism are expressed by most people and they create cultures that alienate and attack the validity of people of different races, genders, etc. If you are curious for more, this a decent article from the APA about microaggressions that covers some basics: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/microaggression.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/microaggression.aspx

by mhurron 14y ago

monochromatic 14y ago

bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality Saying that this is "coming out" doesn't make it true.

jpxxx 14y ago
But it is true, so think about it until you get it.
- king_jester 14y ago
  Except it's totally not, being straight in most places in the world is the default and everyone is seen through a lens of being straight. Coming out refers to revealing to people that you are not straight.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Fine, I'll yield the semantic argument. "Coming out" in the context of sexuality typically refers to homosexuals publicly expressing their preference for the first time and adjusting their public identity to match. I was attacking the idea that most aren't judged upon first expressing their sexual desires. It's important anywhere and everywhere. Bringing home a partner of a different color? Size? Class? "Looks"? Judgement is issued. In some cultures the kind of partner you're able to pull speaks directly to the honor or worth of the family. It's never not a big deal.
    - lotharbot 14y ago
      People are judged for their relationships in general. People are judged for who they have sex with based on all sorts of physical characteristics (sex, skin tone, size, looks, etc.) as well as social attributes (economics, religion, behavioral awkwardness). People are also judged for not having sex with certain people (being monogamous, or especially being a virgin over age 30). Or for people they hang out with in non-sexual relationships in general (friends from different race, class, religion, or sports fandom). Relationships of all sorts are important anywhere and everywhere and never not a big deal.
  - mhurron 14y ago
    It may be the expectation but the reality is that it may not be true. Until you take an action to express your sexuality, everyone is just expecting you to be like them. Bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend is implicitly declaring your heterosexuality, telling your family you are gay is explicitly declaring you are gay. You could also implicitly declare it by bringing home a same-sex partner. Coming out is simply expressing your sexuality.
    - king_jester 14y ago
      > Bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend is implicitly declaring your heterosexuality, telling your family you are gay is explicitly declaring you are gay. Well, if most people you know implicitly assume you are straight, bringing home the expected kind of partner doesn't declare anything because it was already assumed that you were straight. > Coming out is simply expressing your sexuality. No, coming out has its roots in being gay and explicitly revealing that information to others. The entire history of the concept and phrase of coming out exists in that context, you can't just re-contextualize it without throwing away the experiences of people who have come out in the past.

king_jester 14y ago

> Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality. No, this isn't coming out. In most places, people are seen as a default of straight. Coming refers to revealing to people you are not straight, so straight people by definition cannot come out.

rmc 14y ago
In most places, people are seen as a default of straight. Yes and that's wrong.
- philwelch 14y ago
  Not wrong, just playing the odds. ~95% of people are sufficiently heterosexual.
  - king_jester 14y ago
    It's not really about the odds though, it's more about creating norms and normative behavior. For folks that deviation from "normal", they tend to face microaggressions from others, and possibly outright discrimination and physical violence.
    - g8oz 14y ago
      Personally instead of tripping over myself trying not to make every permutation of human diversity feel uncomfortable, I think I'll let them just deal with their hurt feelings i.e the consequences of "microaggressions". Its character building. As for outright discrimination and violence we have laws for that.
      - king_jester 14y ago
        Microaggressions aren't character building, they tend to be the most common way racism and sexism are expressed by most people and they create cultures that alienate and attack the validity of people of different races, genders, etc. If you are curious for more, this a decent article from the APA about microaggressions that covers some basics: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/microaggression.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/microaggression.aspx