6 ms·

Isn't the idea of "coming out" a bit old fashioned now? (Straight people don't "come out")

by noja 14y ago

EliRivers 14y ago
It's as old-fashioned as a first kiss. It happens every day to a million different people.
- noja 14y ago
  My question was why do gay people need to "come out", why does that make sense in 2013?
  - lmm 14y ago
    It's still not statistically normal, and it's still not immediately obvious. So there's always going to be a point where you tell people, and there's always the possibility of an off reaction, like when you mention that you have an unusual hobby. Add to that the fact that there's still a lot of judgement, and for some people it's easier to handle in a single conversation with everyone, and I think the coming out will be with us for some time yet.
    - noja 14y ago
      Why does it matter if it's statistically normal, or obvious? Why is there a point when you have to tell people? It seems counter to the equal rights argument.
      - mtrimpe 14y ago
        You don't have to tell people, but you would naturally do so in the course of normal conversation (i.e. how's your wife doing?)
      - precisioncoder 14y ago
        Sharing information about yourself is always a good idea and big news is often shared with a group of people. For instance when I decided to be a programmer I told everyone I could because it was a big thing for me. Later I learned that in order to avoid discrimination I had to describe myself as a software developer...
      - AndrewDucker 14y ago
        If you've been hiding it for a long time because you're worried about the response you might get, then at some point you decide to tell others, then it's going to happen that way. And across a lot of the world, even in 2013, there's still a lot of negativity about homosexuality.
      - king_jester 14y ago
        The point is that some people that come out may face immediate discrimination and possibly physical violence. Not everyone is tolerant of someone being gay and some of those people will take actions to fuck you over if you come out. Because of this, some people do not want to reveal that information and they have a right to do so.
      - scarmig 14y ago
        A good friend of mine, living in SF, recently came out to his parents who live in suburban Colorado. His mom asked him the typical questions--"Are you sure? Have you tried dating girls? Are you sure you just haven't met the right one?" while his dad set quietly at the table. Then all of his sudden his dad broke into a yelling rage, in the middle of a packed brunch place, accused his son of being scrawny because of AIDS, and stormed out of the place. You really need to stop a second and try to see things from different perspectives.
        noja 14y ago
        You really need to stop a second and try to see things from different perspectives. Not if those perspectives are bigotry.
        jessaustin 14y ago
        I'm pretty sure that's not was what meant by GP. The story wasn't told so we would empathize with the shouting dad but so we'd be reminded of the son's situation.
  - danabramov 14y ago
    Well, at the very least their parents don't know. And it's not like all parents accept this easily.
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    Really? Look at a map of US states, wait, here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.sv... Gay marriage is legal in only a few states. At the federal level it is explicitly excluded from the "full faith and credit" clause of the constitution. And in most states it is expressly illegal. More so, in some states homosexual acts are technically illegal and in theory punishable by jail time. There are a lot of folks who are extremely anti-gay. Who are publicly against not just gay marriage but the "gay lifestyle" and the very existence and/or acceptance of homosexuality. Not to mention friends and family members. According to statistics, as a gay man or woman you'd have roughly the same chance as a coin flip for each one of your friends or family on whether or not they would accept your homosexuality and consider it "morally acceptable". Those aren't the best odds. So yes, it's still kind of a big deal.
    - pfedor 14y ago
      More so, in some states homosexual acts are technically illegal and in theory punishable by jail time. No longer true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas
lmm 14y ago
Up to a point, but in a lot of the world it's still necessary.
mhurron 14y ago
> (Straight people don't "come out") Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality. In a large part of the world though, probably most of the world where you can, if you are gay you basically have to explicit come out to your closest friends and relatives to get over whatever initial shock, embarrassment, anger, violence, or whatever may occur. Far too many don't take it well.
- monochromatic 14y ago
  bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality Saying that this is "coming out" doesn't make it true.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    But it is true, so think about it until you get it.
    - king_jester 14y ago
      Except it's totally not, being straight in most places in the world is the default and everyone is seen through a lens of being straight. Coming out refers to revealing to people that you are not straight.
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        Fine, I'll yield the semantic argument. "Coming out" in the context of sexuality typically refers to homosexuals publicly expressing their preference for the first time and adjusting their public identity to match. I was attacking the idea that most aren't judged upon first expressing their sexual desires. It's important anywhere and everywhere. Bringing home a partner of a different color? Size? Class? "Looks"? Judgement is issued. In some cultures the kind of partner you're able to pull speaks directly to the honor or worth of the family. It's never not a big deal.
rmc 14y ago
Isn't the idea of "coming out" a bit old fashioned now? What do you mean? People still have to come out... (Straight people don't "come out") Depends. Some straight trans people have to come out as trans.

Isn't the idea of "coming out" a bit old fashioned now? (Straight people don't "come out")

by noja 14y ago

Isn't the idea of "coming out" a bit old fashioned now? (Straight people don't "come out")

EliRivers 14y ago

It's as old-fashioned as a first kiss. It happens every day to a million different people.

noja 14y ago
My question was why do gay people need to "come out", why does that make sense in 2013?
- lmm 14y ago
  It's still not statistically normal, and it's still not immediately obvious. So there's always going to be a point where you tell people, and there's always the possibility of an off reaction, like when you mention that you have an unusual hobby. Add to that the fact that there's still a lot of judgement, and for some people it's easier to handle in a single conversation with everyone, and I think the coming out will be with us for some time yet.
  - noja 14y ago
    Why does it matter if it's statistically normal, or obvious? Why is there a point when you have to tell people? It seems counter to the equal rights argument.
    - mtrimpe 14y ago
      You don't have to tell people, but you would naturally do so in the course of normal conversation (i.e. how's your wife doing?)
    - precisioncoder 14y ago
      Sharing information about yourself is always a good idea and big news is often shared with a group of people. For instance when I decided to be a programmer I told everyone I could because it was a big thing for me. Later I learned that in order to avoid discrimination I had to describe myself as a software developer...
    - AndrewDucker 14y ago
      If you've been hiding it for a long time because you're worried about the response you might get, then at some point you decide to tell others, then it's going to happen that way. And across a lot of the world, even in 2013, there's still a lot of negativity about homosexuality.
    - king_jester 14y ago
      The point is that some people that come out may face immediate discrimination and possibly physical violence. Not everyone is tolerant of someone being gay and some of those people will take actions to fuck you over if you come out. Because of this, some people do not want to reveal that information and they have a right to do so.
    - scarmig 14y ago
      A good friend of mine, living in SF, recently came out to his parents who live in suburban Colorado. His mom asked him the typical questions--"Are you sure? Have you tried dating girls? Are you sure you just haven't met the right one?" while his dad set quietly at the table. Then all of his sudden his dad broke into a yelling rage, in the middle of a packed brunch place, accused his son of being scrawny because of AIDS, and stormed out of the place. You really need to stop a second and try to see things from different perspectives.
      - noja 14y ago
        You really need to stop a second and try to see things from different perspectives. Not if those perspectives are bigotry.
        jessaustin 14y ago
        I'm pretty sure that's not was what meant by GP. The story wasn't told so we would empathize with the shouting dad but so we'd be reminded of the son's situation.
- danabramov 14y ago
  Well, at the very least their parents don't know. And it's not like all parents accept this easily.
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  Really? Look at a map of US states, wait, here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.sv... Gay marriage is legal in only a few states. At the federal level it is explicitly excluded from the "full faith and credit" clause of the constitution. And in most states it is expressly illegal. More so, in some states homosexual acts are technically illegal and in theory punishable by jail time. There are a lot of folks who are extremely anti-gay. Who are publicly against not just gay marriage but the "gay lifestyle" and the very existence and/or acceptance of homosexuality. Not to mention friends and family members. According to statistics, as a gay man or woman you'd have roughly the same chance as a coin flip for each one of your friends or family on whether or not they would accept your homosexuality and consider it "morally acceptable". Those aren't the best odds. So yes, it's still kind of a big deal.
  - pfedor 14y ago
    More so, in some states homosexual acts are technically illegal and in theory punishable by jail time. No longer true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

lmm 14y ago

Up to a point, but in a lot of the world it's still necessary.

mhurron 14y ago

> (Straight people don't "come out") Well yes they do, it's just that they can do it by bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality. In a large part of the world though, probably most of the world where you can, if you are gay you basically have to explicit come out to your closest friends and relatives to get over whatever initial shock, embarrassment, anger, violence, or whatever may occur. Far too many don't take it well.

monochromatic 14y ago
bringing home the boyfriend/girlfriend to meet the parents or whatever you want to consider normal first steps in expressing your sexuality Saying that this is "coming out" doesn't make it true.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  But it is true, so think about it until you get it.
  - king_jester 14y ago
    Except it's totally not, being straight in most places in the world is the default and everyone is seen through a lens of being straight. Coming out refers to revealing to people that you are not straight.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Fine, I'll yield the semantic argument. "Coming out" in the context of sexuality typically refers to homosexuals publicly expressing their preference for the first time and adjusting their public identity to match. I was attacking the idea that most aren't judged upon first expressing their sexual desires. It's important anywhere and everywhere. Bringing home a partner of a different color? Size? Class? "Looks"? Judgement is issued. In some cultures the kind of partner you're able to pull speaks directly to the honor or worth of the family. It's never not a big deal.

rmc 14y ago

Isn't the idea of "coming out" a bit old fashioned now? What do you mean? People still have to come out... (Straight people don't "come out") Depends. Some straight trans people have to come out as trans.