5 ms·

What terrifies you in this scenario? That the technology would be used by people other than the police, or that the police require identification?

throwaway125 14y ago
Several things: 1) Mass scale surveillance becomes trivial and you'll end up in a database of suspects even if you've never broken the law 2) Your identity can be checked without your knowledge regardless of probable cause 3) The technology might not be safe, but this is much less of an issue than #1 and #2
ck2 14y ago
Your response terrifies me even further. You don't see a problem with giving the police extreme powers? How about the police pulling up outside a neighborhood and making everyone get in a line for TSA-like gropes and clone everyone's cellphone because there were some crimes in the area recently (this actually happens now, not entire neighborhoods but select individuals at their whim). Tell me where you draw the line and how police won't immediately abuse any power they are given? Let me know how you feel after your first encounter with the police someday.
- jrockway 14y ago
  Stop-and-frisk was struck down in court earlier today.
  - ck2 14y ago
    No it wasn't. Only outside apartments where the landlord gave permission as the cause.
    - jrockway 14y ago
      Yes, that particular case is what was up for decision today. What makes you think random searches are more legal if nobody's asking or complaining?
- phaylon 14y ago
  There is a trend in Germany right now, where police ask whole neighborhoods for voluntary DNA testing when they are looking for someone. The problem is that you'll get a visit and asked why you didn't volunteer if you don't go. And it looks like it's not just Germany: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4161983.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4161983.stm I think part of the problem is that the reasonings in these cases aren't out of this world. So people will think of the whole issue as much less problematic.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    That is surprising. Germany usually has its shit together wrt. privacy issues. Of course you can always just hint that they are acting a bit naziest. Makes them shut up really fast (totally unfair tactic, but it works).
- cafard 14y ago
  as far as I know the NYC stop-and-frisk doesn't check your cellphone, but it has stored up a lot of bad will...
krichman 14y ago
An adult isn't required to carry/produce an ID unless they are operating a vehicle. Will that still be the case in five or ten years?
- ck2 14y ago
  Yes you are. If you are not carrying ID, they will detain you until your identification can be confirmed - if that means taking you to jail for a 24 hour hold, they have no problem being paid overtime to sit and do that paperwork. All they have to do is pretend to terry-stop you for any reason and demand ID then. No judge will ever sanction them.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    >No judge will ever sanction them. Courts have been plenty willing to overturn arrests in such circumstances. Moreover, while the cops are largely able to get away with that kind of behavior, it is still illegal for them to do so. Also, I wasn't able to find any evidence of cops being able to detain you in jail for hours on a Terry stop. Can you give a reference?
  - vacri 14y ago
    I thought that you only had to identify yourself under suspicion of doing something unlawful, and couldn't be held simply for not handing over an ID.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Some states require you to identify yourself upon request. This does not, in any state I am aware of, require the use if ID. All that is required in those states is that you tell them your name.

throwaway125 14y ago

Several things: 1) Mass scale surveillance becomes trivial and you'll end up in a database of suspects even if you've never broken the law 2) Your identity can be checked without your knowledge regardless of probable cause 3) The technology might not be safe, but this is much less of an issue than #1 and #2

ck2 14y ago

Your response terrifies me even further. You don't see a problem with giving the police extreme powers? How about the police pulling up outside a neighborhood and making everyone get in a line for TSA-like gropes and clone everyone's cellphone because there were some crimes in the area recently (this actually happens now, not entire neighborhoods but select individuals at their whim). Tell me where you draw the line and how police won't immediately abuse any power they are given? Let me know how you feel after your first encounter with the police someday.

jrockway 14y ago
Stop-and-frisk was struck down in court earlier today.
- ck2 14y ago
  No it wasn't. Only outside apartments where the landlord gave permission as the cause.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    Yes, that particular case is what was up for decision today. What makes you think random searches are more legal if nobody's asking or complaining?
phaylon 14y ago
There is a trend in Germany right now, where police ask whole neighborhoods for voluntary DNA testing when they are looking for someone. The problem is that you'll get a visit and asked why you didn't volunteer if you don't go. And it looks like it's not just Germany: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4161983.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4161983.stm I think part of the problem is that the reasonings in these cases aren't out of this world. So people will think of the whole issue as much less problematic.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  That is surprising. Germany usually has its shit together wrt. privacy issues. Of course you can always just hint that they are acting a bit naziest. Makes them shut up really fast (totally unfair tactic, but it works).
cafard 14y ago
as far as I know the NYC stop-and-frisk doesn't check your cellphone, but it has stored up a lot of bad will...

krichman 14y ago

An adult isn't required to carry/produce an ID unless they are operating a vehicle. Will that still be the case in five or ten years?

ck2 14y ago
Yes you are. If you are not carrying ID, they will detain you until your identification can be confirmed - if that means taking you to jail for a 24 hour hold, they have no problem being paid overtime to sit and do that paperwork. All they have to do is pretend to terry-stop you for any reason and demand ID then. No judge will ever sanction them.
- mistercow 14y ago
  >No judge will ever sanction them. Courts have been plenty willing to overturn arrests in such circumstances. Moreover, while the cops are largely able to get away with that kind of behavior, it is still illegal for them to do so. Also, I wasn't able to find any evidence of cops being able to detain you in jail for hours on a Terry stop. Can you give a reference?
- vacri 14y ago
  I thought that you only had to identify yourself under suspicion of doing something unlawful, and couldn't be held simply for not handing over an ID.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Some states require you to identify yourself upon request. This does not, in any state I am aware of, require the use if ID. All that is required in those states is that you tell them your name.