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Did it ever occur to the girl that wearing an identification lanyard is perhaps a security measure by the school to ensure only people permitted to be on the gr

Did it ever occur to the girl that wearing an identification lanyard is perhaps a security measure by the school to ensure only people permitted to be on the grounds are on the school grounds? I think the RFID chip is a great idea. It prevents people wagging and as mentioned prevents just anyone from walking into the school pretending to be a student. They presented a compromise of removing the chip and it wasn't good enough, there's no religious belief trespassing here just stupidity and defiance for school policy. Here in Australia the public school I attended required me to wear an ID card (no RFID though) on a lanyard for security purposes so they could identify people who weren't supposed to be there. I don't see the problem because a couple of places I've worked at have required the same thing and all Government jobs also require a lanyard with ID displayed at all times.

deleted 14y ago
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tptacek 14y ago
I'm sort of with you. I've never really understood what the objection was to RFID badges in schools. My kids already wear ID badges in public schools. Why would I be upset by better ones? It's not like they're being tracked at all times. They're in school. They're not even allowed to go to the bathroom without asking.
- dmix 14y ago
  I guess some people have different expectations of freedom and privacy we allow our kids.
  - DigitalSea 14y ago
    In what ways does an RFID chip or ID badge on a lanyard restrict the freedom of kids whilst at school? As for privacy, I don't see how an RFID chip or ID card does that either. Passports have RFID chips in them as well as our photo and other identifying info we're forced to have when visiting another country, do passports infringe upon privacy as well? My drivers licence here in Australia has my photo on it as well as an in-built chip, is it infringing my privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store or anywhere requiring proof of identification?
    - bad_user 14y ago
      > do passports infringe upon privacy as well? Yes. > is it infringing my privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store Yes.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        So for the rest of us who may not love the need for passports and drivers licenses but are overall fine with it, it seems RFID school badges might be just fine.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    The problem is that this was brought up as a religious objection, not a freedom or privacy-based one.
- bad_user 14y ago
  Personally I grew up without RFID chips or video cameras tracking me at school. I never really understood the needs of parents for more control, when it is just security theater anyway.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    So I guess you never cut classes to go drink with your friends.
    - bad_user 14y ago
      Sure I did, but what's the problem? That's part of growing up dude. Also, if you need RFID chips or other tracking methods, then something is seriously defective in the child-parent-teacher relationship, because when I grew up my parents were finding out from the teachers themselves if I was skipping classes and my parents also made sure I understood that school is important, so skipping a lecture was the exception, not the rule. Also, if you still want to track your own child, search for an app to install on his phone or something. Why should all children get the same treatment because of a couple of paranoid parents? Speaking of which, I remember a saying: if your child climbs a tree, he gets the thrills in case he reaches the top, but you don't feel this excitement, just the pain in case he falls down. As parents, we should remember this and IMHO the smart thing to do would be to teach him how to climb a tree properly ;-) (I should mention that I'm also a father)
      - tptacek 14y ago
        There are zero (0) responsible parents that would be OK with a school that told them it "wasn't their problem" to know where students were from the point they get on the school bus at 8:30AM to the point they get off it a 3:30PM. If a 25 cent computer chip embedded in a badge helps the school do that more reliably, all arguing against the badge tells me is that you're not a parent --- or that you, like these crazy people, are terrified of all technology.
      - rtpg 14y ago
        schools have a legal obligation concerning where parent's children during the period in which they're supposed to be in class. What do you think all those permission slips were for?
- mistercow 14y ago
  >They're not even allowed to go to the bathroom without asking. Which is also pretty fucked up.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Perhaps talk to a teacher about the pros and cons of that kind of policy. We're talking about minors here, and 'I need to go to the toilet' is one of the classic fake excuses.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      These rules are in place well after elementary school ages. In my highschool they were in place. I had to ask permission to piss, but not to drop out. Baffling.
    - mistercow 14y ago
      I went to a hippie-ish private school for elementary school and middle school. We were allowed to use the bathroom at any time without asking. It was never a problem, but if it had been, it would have been dealt with on an individual basis. I really think this is a case of absurd over-extension of power over children that everyone is quick to justify, but few are willing to actually test.
hayksaakian 14y ago
Why does a religious objection make it okay? If a start the church of antirfidism why should I get a free pass if the tech is so important?
mistercow 14y ago
>Did it ever occur to the girl that wearing an identification lanyard is perhaps a security measure by the school to ensure only people permitted to be on the grounds are on the school grounds? Three things: 1. It's not for that. It's a way for the school to get credit (and therefore funding) for the students present on any given day. Its purpose has nothing to do with security. 2. If it were intended for security, it would be an ineffective measure. Anyone who wanted to get around it could simply wear something around their neck and nobody would give them a second glance. 3. Schools don't need more security. Yes, there has been some violence in schools, and that's awful, but in terms of preventable death rates, it's not even a blip on the radar.
- DigitalSea 14y ago
  I am aware that schools with better attendance get more funding which is a primary motivator in this situation but it also does have a security benefit, whether or not that was the goal of RFID in the first place. The issue of ID is moot here, schools for years have always had ID cards (for getting school library books, accessing computers, printing, etc). One could argue any form of security is ineffective, most forms of security have pros and cons, the RFID and ID card scenario is no different. One could also argue that an FBI ID card or bank teller ID card could be faked as well, it's more of a deterrent thing though. I think we can all agree religious beliefs being a reason the family of this girl is against the mandatory school ID is unjustified and insane. I've yet to see any valid argument against mandatory ID cards loaded with RFID chips, is there a con here I am not seeing?
- vacri 14y ago
  Anyone who wanted to get around it could simply wear something around their neck and nobody would give them a second glance. When I was at high school (late 80s), there was a guy who totally covered his yellow public transport year-pass with black gaffer tape. Every day at the train station he'd flash it to the attendant, and it wasn't until near the end of the year that he was pulled up for it (during a blitz).

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 14y ago

I'm sort of with you. I've never really understood what the objection was to RFID badges in schools. My kids already wear ID badges in public schools. Why would I be upset by better ones? It's not like they're being tracked at all times. They're in school. They're not even allowed to go to the bathroom without asking.

dmix 14y ago
I guess some people have different expectations of freedom and privacy we allow our kids.
- DigitalSea 14y ago
  In what ways does an RFID chip or ID badge on a lanyard restrict the freedom of kids whilst at school? As for privacy, I don't see how an RFID chip or ID card does that either. Passports have RFID chips in them as well as our photo and other identifying info we're forced to have when visiting another country, do passports infringe upon privacy as well? My drivers licence here in Australia has my photo on it as well as an in-built chip, is it infringing my privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store or anywhere requiring proof of identification?
  - bad_user 14y ago
    > do passports infringe upon privacy as well? Yes. > is it infringing my privacy when I am asked to show it at the liquor store Yes.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      So for the rest of us who may not love the need for passports and drivers licenses but are overall fine with it, it seems RFID school badges might be just fine.
- illuminate 14y ago
  The problem is that this was brought up as a religious objection, not a freedom or privacy-based one.
bad_user 14y ago
Personally I grew up without RFID chips or video cameras tracking me at school. I never really understood the needs of parents for more control, when it is just security theater anyway.
- tptacek 14y ago
  So I guess you never cut classes to go drink with your friends.
  - bad_user 14y ago
    Sure I did, but what's the problem? That's part of growing up dude. Also, if you need RFID chips or other tracking methods, then something is seriously defective in the child-parent-teacher relationship, because when I grew up my parents were finding out from the teachers themselves if I was skipping classes and my parents also made sure I understood that school is important, so skipping a lecture was the exception, not the rule. Also, if you still want to track your own child, search for an app to install on his phone or something. Why should all children get the same treatment because of a couple of paranoid parents? Speaking of which, I remember a saying: if your child climbs a tree, he gets the thrills in case he reaches the top, but you don't feel this excitement, just the pain in case he falls down. As parents, we should remember this and IMHO the smart thing to do would be to teach him how to climb a tree properly ;-) (I should mention that I'm also a father)
    - tptacek 14y ago
      There are zero (0) responsible parents that would be OK with a school that told them it "wasn't their problem" to know where students were from the point they get on the school bus at 8:30AM to the point they get off it a 3:30PM. If a 25 cent computer chip embedded in a badge helps the school do that more reliably, all arguing against the badge tells me is that you're not a parent --- or that you, like these crazy people, are terrified of all technology.
    - rtpg 14y ago
      schools have a legal obligation concerning where parent's children during the period in which they're supposed to be in class. What do you think all those permission slips were for?
mistercow 14y ago
>They're not even allowed to go to the bathroom without asking. Which is also pretty fucked up.
- vacri 14y ago
  Perhaps talk to a teacher about the pros and cons of that kind of policy. We're talking about minors here, and 'I need to go to the toilet' is one of the classic fake excuses.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    These rules are in place well after elementary school ages. In my highschool they were in place. I had to ask permission to piss, but not to drop out. Baffling.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    I went to a hippie-ish private school for elementary school and middle school. We were allowed to use the bathroom at any time without asking. It was never a problem, but if it had been, it would have been dealt with on an individual basis. I really think this is a case of absurd over-extension of power over children that everyone is quick to justify, but few are willing to actually test.

hayksaakian 14y ago

Why does a religious objection make it okay? If a start the church of antirfidism why should I get a free pass if the tech is so important?

mistercow 14y ago

>Did it ever occur to the girl that wearing an identification lanyard is perhaps a security measure by the school to ensure only people permitted to be on the grounds are on the school grounds? Three things: 1. It's not for that. It's a way for the school to get credit (and therefore funding) for the students present on any given day. Its purpose has nothing to do with security. 2. If it were intended for security, it would be an ineffective measure. Anyone who wanted to get around it could simply wear something around their neck and nobody would give them a second glance. 3. Schools don't need more security. Yes, there has been some violence in schools, and that's awful, but in terms of preventable death rates, it's not even a blip on the radar.

DigitalSea 14y ago
I am aware that schools with better attendance get more funding which is a primary motivator in this situation but it also does have a security benefit, whether or not that was the goal of RFID in the first place. The issue of ID is moot here, schools for years have always had ID cards (for getting school library books, accessing computers, printing, etc). One could argue any form of security is ineffective, most forms of security have pros and cons, the RFID and ID card scenario is no different. One could also argue that an FBI ID card or bank teller ID card could be faked as well, it's more of a deterrent thing though. I think we can all agree religious beliefs being a reason the family of this girl is against the mandatory school ID is unjustified and insane. I've yet to see any valid argument against mandatory ID cards loaded with RFID chips, is there a con here I am not seeing?
vacri 14y ago
Anyone who wanted to get around it could simply wear something around their neck and nobody would give them a second glance. When I was at high school (late 80s), there was a guy who totally covered his yellow public transport year-pass with black gaffer tape. Every day at the train station he'd flash it to the attendant, and it wasn't until near the end of the year that he was pulled up for it (during a blitz).