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After the discussion I had with jrockway in this thread[0], I've come to really dislike the Svbtle network and what it stands for. I can't speak for the rest of

After the discussion I had with jrockway in this thread[0], I've come to really dislike the Svbtle network and what it stands for. I can't speak for the rest of the community, but I would consider Svbtle branding to be a strike against a blog, and not something that is a sign of its quality. 0: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4993094 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4993094

teej 14y ago
The thread in which you call a person you've never met a douchebag for trying to build something?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  You must've missed this post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4996236 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4996236
  - dcurtis 14y ago
    I now find those posts somewhat embarrassing. The vitriol was unnecessary and diluted my arguments. In fact, I no longer even link to those articles from my website. Still, I don't think something I wrote several years ago in a completely different context should impact your opinion of Svbtle as a network.
    - kmfrk 14y ago
      I think that some - not I - feel this way about Svbtle, because they have an impression that it is a "mindshare" platform rather than a blogging CMS - thus an extension and continuation of the things you have said and done. People's first impression of Svbtle happened in the context of the whole argybargy surrounding the launch and copied design, and even I didn't get a great impression of Svbtle as a result. People impute, when creators and founders don't explain what the project is about. Maybe it's time to re-explain what Svbtle is and aspires to do to salvage the brand. EDIT: mladenkovch did a good job of summarizing what I find to be the inkling of a lack of humility in the project description: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027929 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027929.
    - jspthrowaway2 14y ago
      As I told pg, my opinion of you impacts Svbtle so minutely that it might as well not even exist. But, it is still my opinion of you. Let's be honest, Dustin, that article was from 2009. It wasn't exactly written in the '80s when you were on a coke binge. I think your attitude in a lot of blog posts reflects quite negatively on who you are as a person, and that's where a lot of the hate for you comes from. You're presumptuous about our industry in a lot of ways without much to show in terms of accomplishment. Often I've asked, who is Dustin Curtis? Why is he telling me the important things about building a startup? The answers to these questions are thin, vague, or nonexistent. I'm glad you have opinion and I certainly don't resent yours, but I also don't position myself as a commentator on all things Silicon Valley without having actually done anything in Silicon Valley. This isn't a critique of you nearly as much as it is a critique of punditry, I think, since I haven't given it much thought; that said, it's still my reaction to most of your writing. I don't hate you, as it were, nor do I seek every opportunity to piss on your brand, I just hold a quite-negative opinion and will share it if asked. Again, as I told pg above, I'm also willing to be proven wrong but you've simply made it worse since I developed it. I genuinely feel bad for you (and I mean that), that you want to accomplish something but you have to deal with this crap when you do. If you're self-aware about why it happens, I can sympathize, as I've made grievous mistakes in my life that cost me some reputation as well. If you aren't, then you should figure out why it's happening.
      - ry0ohki 14y ago
        "Often I've asked, who is Dustin Curtis? Why is he telling me the important things about building a startup?" As someone who is neither in the hater not fan category, this is what I've been trying to figure out. I have no clue who he is and it's very difficult to find out much besides he's an opinionated person with a taste for design.
        blader 14y ago
        Why does it matter who he is? Why not consider the merits of the ideas in their own right rather than relying on the authority of the author? One would think folks on HN would be inclined to treat ideas in a more meritocratically way.
    - oh_sigh 14y ago
      > I don't think something I wrote several years ago in a completely different context should impact your opinion of Svbtle as a network. Do you hold others to the same standard? How quickly do you forget about their unrelated past? The problem you're experiencing is that it is much easier to gain the "douche" label than it is to get rid of it.
    - 3pt14159 14y ago
      Don't be embarrassed of those posts. It is what we all think about so many shitty websites every single fucking day. Although I will say that blackatlas.com has turned out better than expected.
mnicole 14y ago
ITT: You neglect to read the two blog posts about the topic you're debating and cast a blanket statement about a guy who was just trying to help the brand and didn't understand the internal conflicts going on at the company. The designer was fired for sharing internal information relevant to the initial blog post he made (letting him know there were competent designers in-house, but not much they could do about typical politics), not because Dustin said their design team sucked.
- tuananh 14y ago
  Do you have a source saying the designer was actually fired because of sharing internal information?
  - protomyth 14y ago
    batgaijin posted the article link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6531610/American-Airlines-worker-fired-for-replying-to-web-user-complaint.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6531610/America... in this comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028019
- bri3d 14y ago
  Had Dustin simply made suggestions, he'd be trying to help the brand. Instead, he made it personal and demeaned the livelihood of professionals he'd never met. After he received a response, he then went on to make more backhanded jabs, for example saying he was "surprised" that the other designer's work actually looked good. Telling an unfamiliar company to "fire designers" he hadn't interacted with wasn't helping a brand. It was being a douchebag and demonstrates an astounding lack of maturity and experience at best. Edit: Dustin responded to a sibling post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027792 .
  - mnicole 14y ago
    The idea that anyone on HN is innocent of making statements similar to those he did are laughable, and posts just like them make the front page and are the most-upvoted every day. Are people not allowed to have opinions anymore? It isn't like they hired him to clean up house and that was his approach; he saw a terrible user experience and he gave his advice on how to fix it. Often times, starting fresh is the best way to do that. A UX architect came forward to apologize and let him know why things were the way they were (again, corporate politics and the design process). AA found the email by scrubbing their Exchange server and fired the guy over discussing that process. Original complaints: http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html The UX Architect's response: http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_dustin_curtis.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_dustin_curtis.html Dustin's response to the firing: http://www.dustincurtis.com/incompetence.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/incompetence.html

teej 14y ago

The thread in which you call a person you've never met a douchebag for trying to build something?

w1ntermute 14y ago
You must've missed this post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4996236 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4996236
- dcurtis 14y ago
  I now find those posts somewhat embarrassing. The vitriol was unnecessary and diluted my arguments. In fact, I no longer even link to those articles from my website. Still, I don't think something I wrote several years ago in a completely different context should impact your opinion of Svbtle as a network.
  - kmfrk 14y ago
    I think that some - not I - feel this way about Svbtle, because they have an impression that it is a "mindshare" platform rather than a blogging CMS - thus an extension and continuation of the things you have said and done. People's first impression of Svbtle happened in the context of the whole argybargy surrounding the launch and copied design, and even I didn't get a great impression of Svbtle as a result. People impute, when creators and founders don't explain what the project is about. Maybe it's time to re-explain what Svbtle is and aspires to do to salvage the brand. EDIT: mladenkovch did a good job of summarizing what I find to be the inkling of a lack of humility in the project description: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027929 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027929.
  - jspthrowaway2 14y ago
    As I told pg, my opinion of you impacts Svbtle so minutely that it might as well not even exist. But, it is still my opinion of you. Let's be honest, Dustin, that article was from 2009. It wasn't exactly written in the '80s when you were on a coke binge. I think your attitude in a lot of blog posts reflects quite negatively on who you are as a person, and that's where a lot of the hate for you comes from. You're presumptuous about our industry in a lot of ways without much to show in terms of accomplishment. Often I've asked, who is Dustin Curtis? Why is he telling me the important things about building a startup? The answers to these questions are thin, vague, or nonexistent. I'm glad you have opinion and I certainly don't resent yours, but I also don't position myself as a commentator on all things Silicon Valley without having actually done anything in Silicon Valley. This isn't a critique of you nearly as much as it is a critique of punditry, I think, since I haven't given it much thought; that said, it's still my reaction to most of your writing. I don't hate you, as it were, nor do I seek every opportunity to piss on your brand, I just hold a quite-negative opinion and will share it if asked. Again, as I told pg above, I'm also willing to be proven wrong but you've simply made it worse since I developed it. I genuinely feel bad for you (and I mean that), that you want to accomplish something but you have to deal with this crap when you do. If you're self-aware about why it happens, I can sympathize, as I've made grievous mistakes in my life that cost me some reputation as well. If you aren't, then you should figure out why it's happening.
    - ry0ohki 14y ago
      "Often I've asked, who is Dustin Curtis? Why is he telling me the important things about building a startup?" As someone who is neither in the hater not fan category, this is what I've been trying to figure out. I have no clue who he is and it's very difficult to find out much besides he's an opinionated person with a taste for design.
      - blader 14y ago
        Why does it matter who he is? Why not consider the merits of the ideas in their own right rather than relying on the authority of the author? One would think folks on HN would be inclined to treat ideas in a more meritocratically way.
  - oh_sigh 14y ago
    > I don't think something I wrote several years ago in a completely different context should impact your opinion of Svbtle as a network. Do you hold others to the same standard? How quickly do you forget about their unrelated past? The problem you're experiencing is that it is much easier to gain the "douche" label than it is to get rid of it.
  - 3pt14159 14y ago
    Don't be embarrassed of those posts. It is what we all think about so many shitty websites every single fucking day. Although I will say that blackatlas.com has turned out better than expected.

mnicole 14y ago

ITT: You neglect to read the two blog posts about the topic you're debating and cast a blanket statement about a guy who was just trying to help the brand and didn't understand the internal conflicts going on at the company. The designer was fired for sharing internal information relevant to the initial blog post he made (letting him know there were competent designers in-house, but not much they could do about typical politics), not because Dustin said their design team sucked.

tuananh 14y ago
Do you have a source saying the designer was actually fired because of sharing internal information?
- protomyth 14y ago
  batgaijin posted the article link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6531610/American-Airlines-worker-fired-for-replying-to-web-user-complaint.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6531610/America... in this comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028019
bri3d 14y ago
Had Dustin simply made suggestions, he'd be trying to help the brand. Instead, he made it personal and demeaned the livelihood of professionals he'd never met. After he received a response, he then went on to make more backhanded jabs, for example saying he was "surprised" that the other designer's work actually looked good. Telling an unfamiliar company to "fire designers" he hadn't interacted with wasn't helping a brand. It was being a douchebag and demonstrates an astounding lack of maturity and experience at best. Edit: Dustin responded to a sibling post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5027792 .
- mnicole 14y ago
  The idea that anyone on HN is innocent of making statements similar to those he did are laughable, and posts just like them make the front page and are the most-upvoted every day. Are people not allowed to have opinions anymore? It isn't like they hired him to clean up house and that was his approach; he saw a terrible user experience and he gave his advice on how to fix it. Often times, starting fresh is the best way to do that. A UX architect came forward to apologize and let him know why things were the way they were (again, corporate politics and the design process). AA found the email by scrubbing their Exchange server and fired the guy over discussing that process. Original complaints: http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html The UX Architect's response: http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_dustin_curtis.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_dustin_curtis.html Dustin's response to the firing: http://www.dustincurtis.com/incompetence.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/incompetence.html