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If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it? I'm a big Android fan, and I've always liked Nokia phones. If Nok

If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it? I'm a big Android fan, and I've always liked Nokia phones. If Nokia made an Android phone, I would probably use it. I know I'm not alone. In the article, Nokia says that it felt like it couldn't stand out in the Android market, but Nokia's hardware stands out on its own. I think an Android Nokia phone would sell like hotcakes.

ZenoArrow 14y ago
"If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it?" The current approach seems to be; 1. Set themselves up as a big player in a smaller market. 2. Wait for the smaller market to grow. In other words, they're trying to play the long game. As for the comments about Android, the article is link-bait, pure and simple. Being open to an idea doesn't mean you have any plans to implement it. To use an analogous story, imagine we were colleagues and you mentioned in a conversation that you may work for a different company before you retire, if I was playing TechCrunch's role I'd be going to your boss and saying you were planning to get a new job.
- TheAnimus 14y ago
  The whole elephant in the room about the Nokia should use Android thing is HTC. HTC have, for a variety of reasons lost a lot of ground to Samsung. The question I always find myself asking, is would Nokia have faired better there? On WP they only have to out gun HTC really, thats it. On Android, Samsung are doing a good job carving out the high end, the mid range, and leaving the low to no profit margin to the Chinese and nock off brigade. Will Nokia's Microsoft gamble pay off? Who knows, Would it have been raking in the billions if it had gone Android? Probably not, as HTC's problems show.
  - lawdawg 14y ago
    At least HTC is profitable, along with a host of other OEMs that target China, India, and Europe. The reason that other OEMs like LG and Motorola are not profitable (but they aren't losing anywhere as much as Nokia is) is less to do with picking Android and more to do with the fact that they were doing very poorly before Android came around and Android was the main reason they are still relevant today. As others have stated, there's nothing wrong with Nokia building out Windows Phone phones. The issue is exclusivity, which is understandable given the $1 billion a year Microsoft is paying them. I suppose we will see which way Nokia turns once that contract ends (whenever it does end).
  - Ologn 14y ago
    They have to outgun Samsung on WP as well. On some metrics I have seen Nokia behind not only HTC, but Samsung for WP. Often when I go into an AT&T or other carrier store, way in the back away from the iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S3s will be a kiosk with some WPs, and Nokia sits next to the HTC and Samsung WP undistinguished - the sole representative of Nokia in a store filled with Apple and Samsung. They are a third rate player in a third rate operating system. WPs market share is dismal, and brands like RIM (and Symbian!) have been losing market share, so it is certainly possible Microsoft can increase in market share. But I think every day that goes by, the chance of it becoming a dominant mobile player recedes. Apple took its place in the market years ago, and Android is now in an advanced state on many fronts - market share, ecosystem etc. Android is in a much more solid place then it was even a year ago, a hold which would be very difficult to dislodge.
rst 14y ago
Microsoft's contract with Nokia isn't fully public, but the Nokia side has talked about "billion-dollar" payments they expect to Nokia from Microsoft if the ecosystem takes off[1]. It's not clear exactly for what --- Nokia is providing mapping data and software for Windows Phone[2], and presumably collecting royalties (including from phones shipped by their competitors!) but that's only part of the picture, and perhaps a small part. One might guess that some of these payments are conditional on Nokia not offering another smartphone platform. If so, that's what Nokia has to lose. Then again, if those payments are also somehow keyed to the size of the Windows Mobile market as a whole (e.g., those map royalties), they might not have nearly as much to lose as both sides anticipated when they made the deal in the first place. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Phone-7-Deal-Partnership-money,14564.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Pho... [2] http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-questions-maps-on-windows-phone-8/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-q...
- rayiner 14y ago
  To add to your point, with no Google maps on WP8, Nokia Maps is the defacto WP8 mapping application. That gives them leverage in the WP8 market they don't have in Android land, where they'd be just another OEM. What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's. Buy Nokia and make their own phones with exclusive access to WP8.
  - bad_user 14y ago
    > What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's It's Google that plays Microsoft's game, which has been played before and Apple lost. It's inevitable for Apple to get caught by competition, they are also bad at competing on price and their distribution network pales in comparison to the distribution network of all Android phone makers combined. One or two years ago, people talked about how small the Android apps ecosystem was compared to iOS, but nowadays they are almost on equal footing and eventually Android's ecosystem will get much bigger. If there's anything Microsoft learned is that hardware becomes eventually a commodity and their Windows/Office monopoly made it possible for them to release one shitty product after another and still have room for recovery. Apple may be more profitable than Microsoft, but they don't have the same wiggle room for screwups.

ZenoArrow 14y ago

"If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it?" The current approach seems to be; 1. Set themselves up as a big player in a smaller market. 2. Wait for the smaller market to grow. In other words, they're trying to play the long game. As for the comments about Android, the article is link-bait, pure and simple. Being open to an idea doesn't mean you have any plans to implement it. To use an analogous story, imagine we were colleagues and you mentioned in a conversation that you may work for a different company before you retire, if I was playing TechCrunch's role I'd be going to your boss and saying you were planning to get a new job.

TheAnimus 14y ago
The whole elephant in the room about the Nokia should use Android thing is HTC. HTC have, for a variety of reasons lost a lot of ground to Samsung. The question I always find myself asking, is would Nokia have faired better there? On WP they only have to out gun HTC really, thats it. On Android, Samsung are doing a good job carving out the high end, the mid range, and leaving the low to no profit margin to the Chinese and nock off brigade. Will Nokia's Microsoft gamble pay off? Who knows, Would it have been raking in the billions if it had gone Android? Probably not, as HTC's problems show.
- lawdawg 14y ago
  At least HTC is profitable, along with a host of other OEMs that target China, India, and Europe. The reason that other OEMs like LG and Motorola are not profitable (but they aren't losing anywhere as much as Nokia is) is less to do with picking Android and more to do with the fact that they were doing very poorly before Android came around and Android was the main reason they are still relevant today. As others have stated, there's nothing wrong with Nokia building out Windows Phone phones. The issue is exclusivity, which is understandable given the $1 billion a year Microsoft is paying them. I suppose we will see which way Nokia turns once that contract ends (whenever it does end).
- Ologn 14y ago
  They have to outgun Samsung on WP as well. On some metrics I have seen Nokia behind not only HTC, but Samsung for WP. Often when I go into an AT&T or other carrier store, way in the back away from the iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S3s will be a kiosk with some WPs, and Nokia sits next to the HTC and Samsung WP undistinguished - the sole representative of Nokia in a store filled with Apple and Samsung. They are a third rate player in a third rate operating system. WPs market share is dismal, and brands like RIM (and Symbian!) have been losing market share, so it is certainly possible Microsoft can increase in market share. But I think every day that goes by, the chance of it becoming a dominant mobile player recedes. Apple took its place in the market years ago, and Android is now in an advanced state on many fronts - market share, ecosystem etc. Android is in a much more solid place then it was even a year ago, a hold which would be very difficult to dislodge.

rst 14y ago

Microsoft's contract with Nokia isn't fully public, but the Nokia side has talked about "billion-dollar" payments they expect to Nokia from Microsoft if the ecosystem takes off[1]. It's not clear exactly for what --- Nokia is providing mapping data and software for Windows Phone[2], and presumably collecting royalties (including from phones shipped by their competitors!) but that's only part of the picture, and perhaps a small part. One might guess that some of these payments are conditional on Nokia not offering another smartphone platform. If so, that's what Nokia has to lose. Then again, if those payments are also somehow keyed to the size of the Windows Mobile market as a whole (e.g., those map royalties), they might not have nearly as much to lose as both sides anticipated when they made the deal in the first place. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Phone-7-Deal-Partnership-money,14564.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Pho... [2] http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-questions-maps-on-windows-phone-8/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-q...

rayiner 14y ago
To add to your point, with no Google maps on WP8, Nokia Maps is the defacto WP8 mapping application. That gives them leverage in the WP8 market they don't have in Android land, where they'd be just another OEM. What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's. Buy Nokia and make their own phones with exclusive access to WP8.
- bad_user 14y ago
  > What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's It's Google that plays Microsoft's game, which has been played before and Apple lost. It's inevitable for Apple to get caught by competition, they are also bad at competing on price and their distribution network pales in comparison to the distribution network of all Android phone makers combined. One or two years ago, people talked about how small the Android apps ecosystem was compared to iOS, but nowadays they are almost on equal footing and eventually Android's ecosystem will get much bigger. If there's anything Microsoft learned is that hardware becomes eventually a commodity and their Windows/Office monopoly made it possible for them to release one shitty product after another and still have room for recovery. Apple may be more profitable than Microsoft, but they don't have the same wiggle room for screwups.