5 ms·

Nokia Confirms It’s Keeping An Open Mind About Using Android In Future

38 points by amerf1 14y ago

rthomas6 14y ago
If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it? I'm a big Android fan, and I've always liked Nokia phones. If Nokia made an Android phone, I would probably use it. I know I'm not alone. In the article, Nokia says that it felt like it couldn't stand out in the Android market, but Nokia's hardware stands out on its own. I think an Android Nokia phone would sell like hotcakes.
- ZenoArrow 14y ago
  "If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it?" The current approach seems to be; 1. Set themselves up as a big player in a smaller market. 2. Wait for the smaller market to grow. In other words, they're trying to play the long game. As for the comments about Android, the article is link-bait, pure and simple. Being open to an idea doesn't mean you have any plans to implement it. To use an analogous story, imagine we were colleagues and you mentioned in a conversation that you may work for a different company before you retire, if I was playing TechCrunch's role I'd be going to your boss and saying you were planning to get a new job.
  - TheAnimus 14y ago
    The whole elephant in the room about the Nokia should use Android thing is HTC. HTC have, for a variety of reasons lost a lot of ground to Samsung. The question I always find myself asking, is would Nokia have faired better there? On WP they only have to out gun HTC really, thats it. On Android, Samsung are doing a good job carving out the high end, the mid range, and leaving the low to no profit margin to the Chinese and nock off brigade. Will Nokia's Microsoft gamble pay off? Who knows, Would it have been raking in the billions if it had gone Android? Probably not, as HTC's problems show.
    - lawdawg 14y ago
      At least HTC is profitable, along with a host of other OEMs that target China, India, and Europe. The reason that other OEMs like LG and Motorola are not profitable (but they aren't losing anywhere as much as Nokia is) is less to do with picking Android and more to do with the fact that they were doing very poorly before Android came around and Android was the main reason they are still relevant today. As others have stated, there's nothing wrong with Nokia building out Windows Phone phones. The issue is exclusivity, which is understandable given the $1 billion a year Microsoft is paying them. I suppose we will see which way Nokia turns once that contract ends (whenever it does end).
    - Ologn 14y ago
      They have to outgun Samsung on WP as well. On some metrics I have seen Nokia behind not only HTC, but Samsung for WP. Often when I go into an AT&T or other carrier store, way in the back away from the iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S3s will be a kiosk with some WPs, and Nokia sits next to the HTC and Samsung WP undistinguished - the sole representative of Nokia in a store filled with Apple and Samsung. They are a third rate player in a third rate operating system. WPs market share is dismal, and brands like RIM (and Symbian!) have been losing market share, so it is certainly possible Microsoft can increase in market share. But I think every day that goes by, the chance of it becoming a dominant mobile player recedes. Apple took its place in the market years ago, and Android is now in an advanced state on many fronts - market share, ecosystem etc. Android is in a much more solid place then it was even a year ago, a hold which would be very difficult to dislodge.
- rst 14y ago
  Microsoft's contract with Nokia isn't fully public, but the Nokia side has talked about "billion-dollar" payments they expect to Nokia from Microsoft if the ecosystem takes off[1]. It's not clear exactly for what --- Nokia is providing mapping data and software for Windows Phone[2], and presumably collecting royalties (including from phones shipped by their competitors!) but that's only part of the picture, and perhaps a small part. One might guess that some of these payments are conditional on Nokia not offering another smartphone platform. If so, that's what Nokia has to lose. Then again, if those payments are also somehow keyed to the size of the Windows Mobile market as a whole (e.g., those map royalties), they might not have nearly as much to lose as both sides anticipated when they made the deal in the first place. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Phone-7-Deal-Partnership-money,14564.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Pho... [2] http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-questions-maps-on-windows-phone-8/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-q...
  - rayiner 14y ago
    To add to your point, with no Google maps on WP8, Nokia Maps is the defacto WP8 mapping application. That gives them leverage in the WP8 market they don't have in Android land, where they'd be just another OEM. What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's. Buy Nokia and make their own phones with exclusive access to WP8.
    - bad_user 14y ago
      > What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's It's Google that plays Microsoft's game, which has been played before and Apple lost. It's inevitable for Apple to get caught by competition, they are also bad at competing on price and their distribution network pales in comparison to the distribution network of all Android phone makers combined. One or two years ago, people talked about how small the Android apps ecosystem was compared to iOS, but nowadays they are almost on equal footing and eventually Android's ecosystem will get much bigger. If there's anything Microsoft learned is that hardware becomes eventually a commodity and their Windows/Office monopoly made it possible for them to release one shitty product after another and still have room for recovery. Apple may be more profitable than Microsoft, but they don't have the same wiggle room for screwups.
manojlds 14y ago
There is no reason why Nokia shouldn't do an Android phone. It is the same case with Windows Phone, there are other OEMs. Hell, HTC8X even looks like Nokia Lumias. How is Nokia really differentiating in WP? Hardware like camera, touchscreens thatcan be used with gooves etc and, some software like Nokia Maps. They can do the same with android.
- perbu 14y ago
  Of course there are reason they shouldn't do an Android phone. Being (more or less) exclusively WP is worth a lot when negotiating with Microsoft. Also, having one OS instead of several makes marketing a lot easier. (I know they still have Symbian, but AFAIK it doesn't sell significantly in the western markets and I don't think Microsoft sees it as a threat to WP).
  - 7952 14y ago
    They already sell phones on a variety of networks, some with exclusivity which consumers understand. Give people the choice. Let me select Windows or Android when I boot the phone for the first time. Add in an option for a simplified granny mode. This would allow the marketing to focus on the actual hardware which is Nokia's strength and make them uniquely different to Samsung and Apple.
  - manojlds 14y ago
    MS is a dangerous bed-mate. Nokia can market and build a brand on, say, Lumias, rather than the OS. A Nokia made Android phone will make a whole lot of people happy and will generate a huge demand.
  - cpeterso 14y ago
    Is Nokia still selling Symbian phones? Their Series 40 feature phones are still popular in developing markets, but they are not running the Symbian OS.
    - manojlds 14y ago
      Nokia is still selling them in the Asha series. They have been popular too, in India, China, and elsewhere.
mmahemoff 14y ago
Android isn't their only available gambit. Things would get real interesting if they invested in the Firefox and/or Ubuntu mobile OSs. They are both attractive developer platforms in need of considerable OEM support.
- daliusd 14y ago
  BlackBerry will let other parties to build phones with their BB10 OS as well.
- rplnt 14y ago
  They already produce phones with one OS that is not popular. Why add another? If they want to focus on Windows phones then Android can serve as a safety net. Ubuntu or Firefox would be just another disaster for them.
  - takluyver 14y ago
    Another minor OS would be a long shot, but as others have mentioned, going to Android is hardly a guaranteed win either. Rather than putting all their eggs in one basket, maybe it's worth investing in several OSes simultaneously. It wouldn't be the first time Nokia R&D has gone out on a limb - they've designed, and sometimes even produced, some really odd phones.
sethg 14y ago
It would be perfectly logical for Nokia to have an alternative OS waiting in the wings, in case Windows stops being useful for them, or even as an incentive to discourage Microsoft from squeezing them too hard. Of course, once upon a time, (Linux-based) Maemo/Meego was the OS waiting in the wings, which they were going to migrate to after Symbian stopped being useful to them, and look how well that worked out.
UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
Nokia's mistake was exclusivity. We can argue all day about whether Nokia was right to jump into bed with Windows Phone/Microsoft, but what might be a more interesting question is if they were right to sign exclusively with Windows Phone/Microsoft. If they had not done so they could have their current line of WP8 devices on the market, and alongside them they could be testing the waters with an Android device or two. Just let the market decide. Nokia hardware with a virgin Android installation and a handful of custom Nokia apps sounds like an appealing offering. In fact I would buy such a phone if it were available. A lot of manufacturers have been installing gunk-ware over Android (e.g. Samsung TouchWiz, HTC Sense, etc) making it slow and laggy, and delaying Android updates by between weeks and sometimes years. Virgin Android (or "the Nexus experience") is actually a real selling point for many Android fans and something Nokia could exploit. Another area where traditional Android phone manufacturers have suffered is that they simply release too many phones. This has confused consumers, weakened their marketing, and split their efforts too widely. If Nokia released no more than three devices per year (small, medium, and large) they could concentrate all of their efforts (marketing and development) in a might smaller area but get much more bang for their buck.
- netcan 14y ago
  Nokia hardware with a virgin Android installation and a handful of custom Nokia apps sounds like an appealing offering. That sounds right for any manufacturer. Somehow though, manufacturers seems to disagree. They prefer lots of devices + lots of tweaks to the OS.
  - UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
    Tell me about it. Supposedly this is so they can "differentiate" themselves from one another... Which from a logical standpoint I can understand, but from a practical standpoint they must see that Nexus branded devices sell almost as well as their "flagship" devices, with far lower investment/maintenance? It makes me thankful that Microsoft essentially banned manufacturers from being able to skin Windows. Can you imagine PCs today if every manufacturer had a different "user experience" (similar to HTP Sense, Samsung TouchWiz, etc) and then the manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) had to provide updates...
trimbo 14y ago
Aren't they out of money? Microsoft is doing the marketing spend for them at this point in the US, so I'm just not sure how they could afford this.
yread 14y ago
Probably not gonna happen http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-categorically-denies-android-rumours-looking-forward-to-double-digit-market-share/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-categorically-denies-android-ru...
eliben 14y ago
So I gather Elop's MS options are about to vest soon :-)
WestCoastJustin 14y ago
I'm waiting for blackberry to come around and do the same!

38 points by amerf1 14y ago

If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it? I'm a big Android fan, and I've always liked Nokia phones. If Nokia made an Android phone, I would probably use it. I know I'm not alone. In the article, Nokia says that it felt like it couldn't stand out in the Android market, but Nokia's hardware stands out on its own. I think an Android Nokia phone would sell like hotcakes.

ZenoArrow 14y ago
"If Nokia is losing money by staying with Windows Phone only, what benefit do they get from it?" The current approach seems to be; 1. Set themselves up as a big player in a smaller market. 2. Wait for the smaller market to grow. In other words, they're trying to play the long game. As for the comments about Android, the article is link-bait, pure and simple. Being open to an idea doesn't mean you have any plans to implement it. To use an analogous story, imagine we were colleagues and you mentioned in a conversation that you may work for a different company before you retire, if I was playing TechCrunch's role I'd be going to your boss and saying you were planning to get a new job.
- TheAnimus 14y ago
  The whole elephant in the room about the Nokia should use Android thing is HTC. HTC have, for a variety of reasons lost a lot of ground to Samsung. The question I always find myself asking, is would Nokia have faired better there? On WP they only have to out gun HTC really, thats it. On Android, Samsung are doing a good job carving out the high end, the mid range, and leaving the low to no profit margin to the Chinese and nock off brigade. Will Nokia's Microsoft gamble pay off? Who knows, Would it have been raking in the billions if it had gone Android? Probably not, as HTC's problems show.
  - lawdawg 14y ago
    At least HTC is profitable, along with a host of other OEMs that target China, India, and Europe. The reason that other OEMs like LG and Motorola are not profitable (but they aren't losing anywhere as much as Nokia is) is less to do with picking Android and more to do with the fact that they were doing very poorly before Android came around and Android was the main reason they are still relevant today. As others have stated, there's nothing wrong with Nokia building out Windows Phone phones. The issue is exclusivity, which is understandable given the $1 billion a year Microsoft is paying them. I suppose we will see which way Nokia turns once that contract ends (whenever it does end).
  - Ologn 14y ago
    They have to outgun Samsung on WP as well. On some metrics I have seen Nokia behind not only HTC, but Samsung for WP. Often when I go into an AT&T or other carrier store, way in the back away from the iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S3s will be a kiosk with some WPs, and Nokia sits next to the HTC and Samsung WP undistinguished - the sole representative of Nokia in a store filled with Apple and Samsung. They are a third rate player in a third rate operating system. WPs market share is dismal, and brands like RIM (and Symbian!) have been losing market share, so it is certainly possible Microsoft can increase in market share. But I think every day that goes by, the chance of it becoming a dominant mobile player recedes. Apple took its place in the market years ago, and Android is now in an advanced state on many fronts - market share, ecosystem etc. Android is in a much more solid place then it was even a year ago, a hold which would be very difficult to dislodge.
rst 14y ago
Microsoft's contract with Nokia isn't fully public, but the Nokia side has talked about "billion-dollar" payments they expect to Nokia from Microsoft if the ecosystem takes off[1]. It's not clear exactly for what --- Nokia is providing mapping data and software for Windows Phone[2], and presumably collecting royalties (including from phones shipped by their competitors!) but that's only part of the picture, and perhaps a small part. One might guess that some of these payments are conditional on Nokia not offering another smartphone platform. If so, that's what Nokia has to lose. Then again, if those payments are also somehow keyed to the size of the Windows Mobile market as a whole (e.g., those map royalties), they might not have nearly as much to lose as both sides anticipated when they made the deal in the first place. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Phone-7-Deal-Partnership-money,14564.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Nokia-Windows-Pho... [2] http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-questions-maps-on-windows-phone-8/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/31/frequently-asked-q...
- rayiner 14y ago
  To add to your point, with no Google maps on WP8, Nokia Maps is the defacto WP8 mapping application. That gives them leverage in the WP8 market they don't have in Android land, where they'd be just another OEM. What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's. Buy Nokia and make their own phones with exclusive access to WP8.
  - bad_user 14y ago
    > What Microsoft should really do is play Apple's game instead of Google's It's Google that plays Microsoft's game, which has been played before and Apple lost. It's inevitable for Apple to get caught by competition, they are also bad at competing on price and their distribution network pales in comparison to the distribution network of all Android phone makers combined. One or two years ago, people talked about how small the Android apps ecosystem was compared to iOS, but nowadays they are almost on equal footing and eventually Android's ecosystem will get much bigger. If there's anything Microsoft learned is that hardware becomes eventually a commodity and their Windows/Office monopoly made it possible for them to release one shitty product after another and still have room for recovery. Apple may be more profitable than Microsoft, but they don't have the same wiggle room for screwups.

manojlds 14y ago

There is no reason why Nokia shouldn't do an Android phone. It is the same case with Windows Phone, there are other OEMs. Hell, HTC8X even looks like Nokia Lumias. How is Nokia really differentiating in WP? Hardware like camera, touchscreens thatcan be used with gooves etc and, some software like Nokia Maps. They can do the same with android.

perbu 14y ago
Of course there are reason they shouldn't do an Android phone. Being (more or less) exclusively WP is worth a lot when negotiating with Microsoft. Also, having one OS instead of several makes marketing a lot easier. (I know they still have Symbian, but AFAIK it doesn't sell significantly in the western markets and I don't think Microsoft sees it as a threat to WP).
- 7952 14y ago
  They already sell phones on a variety of networks, some with exclusivity which consumers understand. Give people the choice. Let me select Windows or Android when I boot the phone for the first time. Add in an option for a simplified granny mode. This would allow the marketing to focus on the actual hardware which is Nokia's strength and make them uniquely different to Samsung and Apple.
- manojlds 14y ago
  MS is a dangerous bed-mate. Nokia can market and build a brand on, say, Lumias, rather than the OS. A Nokia made Android phone will make a whole lot of people happy and will generate a huge demand.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  Is Nokia still selling Symbian phones? Their Series 40 feature phones are still popular in developing markets, but they are not running the Symbian OS.
  - manojlds 14y ago
    Nokia is still selling them in the Asha series. They have been popular too, in India, China, and elsewhere.

mmahemoff 14y ago

Android isn't their only available gambit. Things would get real interesting if they invested in the Firefox and/or Ubuntu mobile OSs. They are both attractive developer platforms in need of considerable OEM support.

daliusd 14y ago
BlackBerry will let other parties to build phones with their BB10 OS as well.
rplnt 14y ago
They already produce phones with one OS that is not popular. Why add another? If they want to focus on Windows phones then Android can serve as a safety net. Ubuntu or Firefox would be just another disaster for them.
- takluyver 14y ago
  Another minor OS would be a long shot, but as others have mentioned, going to Android is hardly a guaranteed win either. Rather than putting all their eggs in one basket, maybe it's worth investing in several OSes simultaneously. It wouldn't be the first time Nokia R&D has gone out on a limb - they've designed, and sometimes even produced, some really odd phones.

sethg 14y ago

It would be perfectly logical for Nokia to have an alternative OS waiting in the wings, in case Windows stops being useful for them, or even as an incentive to discourage Microsoft from squeezing them too hard. Of course, once upon a time, (Linux-based) Maemo/Meego was the OS waiting in the wings, which they were going to migrate to after Symbian stopped being useful to them, and look how well that worked out.

UnoriginalGuy 14y ago

Nokia's mistake was exclusivity. We can argue all day about whether Nokia was right to jump into bed with Windows Phone/Microsoft, but what might be a more interesting question is if they were right to sign exclusively with Windows Phone/Microsoft. If they had not done so they could have their current line of WP8 devices on the market, and alongside them they could be testing the waters with an Android device or two. Just let the market decide. Nokia hardware with a virgin Android installation and a handful of custom Nokia apps sounds like an appealing offering. In fact I would buy such a phone if it were available. A lot of manufacturers have been installing gunk-ware over Android (e.g. Samsung TouchWiz, HTC Sense, etc) making it slow and laggy, and delaying Android updates by between weeks and sometimes years. Virgin Android (or "the Nexus experience") is actually a real selling point for many Android fans and something Nokia could exploit. Another area where traditional Android phone manufacturers have suffered is that they simply release too many phones. This has confused consumers, weakened their marketing, and split their efforts too widely. If Nokia released no more than three devices per year (small, medium, and large) they could concentrate all of their efforts (marketing and development) in a might smaller area but get much more bang for their buck.

netcan 14y ago
Nokia hardware with a virgin Android installation and a handful of custom Nokia apps sounds like an appealing offering. That sounds right for any manufacturer. Somehow though, manufacturers seems to disagree. They prefer lots of devices + lots of tweaks to the OS.
- UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
  Tell me about it. Supposedly this is so they can "differentiate" themselves from one another... Which from a logical standpoint I can understand, but from a practical standpoint they must see that Nexus branded devices sell almost as well as their "flagship" devices, with far lower investment/maintenance? It makes me thankful that Microsoft essentially banned manufacturers from being able to skin Windows. Can you imagine PCs today if every manufacturer had a different "user experience" (similar to HTP Sense, Samsung TouchWiz, etc) and then the manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) had to provide updates...

trimbo 14y ago

Aren't they out of money? Microsoft is doing the marketing spend for them at this point in the US, so I'm just not sure how they could afford this.

yread 14y ago

Probably not gonna happen http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-categorically-denies-android-rumours-looking-forward-to-double-digit-market-share/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-categorically-denies-android-ru...

eliben 14y ago

So I gather Elop's MS options are about to vest soon :-)

WestCoastJustin 14y ago

I'm waiting for blackberry to come around and do the same!