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Mindstorms is pretty cool...but the price puts it out of reach of any but the well-heeled. I run an after school tech program for kids in grades 5 - 8 where we

by patja 14y ago

Mindstorms is pretty cool...but the price puts it out of reach of any but the well-heeled. I run an after school tech program for kids in grades 5 - 8 where we've worked with Scratch quite a bit, and did one session on robotics using the Pololu 3pi line-tracing/maze solving robots and the Parallax Mini-Sumo bots. These robots run $100 - $150 each as opposed to the Mindstorms $250+ (now $350) price point. There is a huge untapped market for a programmable robot at the $50 - $100 price point.

codereflection 14y ago
Price is one of two reasons why I chose to give my kids Arduino's instead of Mindstorms; the other being they're going to learn more about electronics and robotics than they will from Mindstorms.
- EvanKelly 14y ago
  As someone relatively inexperienced with both Arduino and Mindstorms, how do you feel the learning curve differs between the two? Without a knowledgable parent like yourself, do you think most curious kids would have the wherewithal to bend the Arduino to their will as easily as could be done with Mindstorms? Maybe there are some great "Arduino for Kids" books out there that help solve this problem, because I expect a lot of the Arduino documentation might be a little dense for a middle school aged child.
  - kkwok 14y ago
    Having used both arduinos and mindstorms the learning curve is significantly higher with arduinos. You can basically directly build robots with mindstorms with no knowledge of programming. With an arduino it would take significantly longer to reach that point.
mikepurvis 14y ago
It's tough to get down that far, especially without volume. For example, the TI Evalbot, which is _literally_ just a PCB on wheels, is still $150: https://estore.ti.com/Search.aspx?k=evalbot https://estore.ti.com/Search.aspx?k=evalbot Even the iRobot Create, which benefits from the Roomba production infrastructure, sells its cheapest model for $130 (which includes no battery, charger, or brains). Not saying it isn't possible; just that it's difficult.
javery 14y ago
There is a huge untapped market of people like me who would gladly put up $50 to help you buy a set for your class. Setup a form somewhere and I will gladly donate.
- vailripper 14y ago
  http://www.donorschoose.org/ http://www.donorschoose.org/ was built for just this thing.
todayiamme 14y ago
>>> Mindstorms is pretty cool...but the price puts it out of reach of any but the well-heeled. I run an after school tech program for kids in grades 5 - 8 where we've worked with Scratch quite a bit, and did one session on robotics using the Pololu 3pi line-tracing/maze solving robots and the Parallax Mini-Sumo bots. These robots run $100 - $150 each as opposed to the Mindstorms $250+ (now $350) price point. <<< I have tested the Parallax Sumo bots and Mindstorms and I'm firmly of the opinion that the Mindstorms set represents better value. The thing is that at the end of the day the Parallax Sumo bots are one trick ponies and have a fixed chassis and configuration around which you really can't extend without some effort. Even if you do put in the effort, then your design is constrained by the type of chassis the machine came with. For example, you can't easily convert the sumo bot into a hexapedal or bipedal walker. The value proposition for these machines rests solely on programming them in beautiful ways and it really isn't possible for a child to extend the machine itself. Assemble it yes, but it extend it? Not yet. On the other hand with the Mindstorms set you have these precision milled parts that can be combined in endless ways by anyone to create anything from walkers to holonomic drives. There's also the benefit of the entire Lego range, you can easily mix and match all of these parts and combine them in countless ways with one another to give you literally any type of machine you want without getting out a file or a drill. That's something that instantly appeals to children and I remember the amazing feeling I used to get out of playing with Mindstorms when I was a little girl. I could actually create something that was "alive," and there was nothing better than that. Programming seemed dull and useless to me as compared to putting these pieces together and bringing them to life, somehow. It was captivating and it's what gave me the real push towards actually learning engineering. That's a miracle if you think about it and it represents great value. >>> There is a huge untapped market for a programmable robot at the $50 - $100 price point. <<< It's actually quite easy to build something yourself at that price point. Get $3 DC motors, waste aluminium channelling from build sites, acrylic, gear boxes + wheels, wires, an arduino, and a few screws. Build a frame out of the channelling, use the acrylic sheets as a type of wall, drill and mount motors on the acrylic sheets and put the arduino on somewhere with pencil cells. You're good to go.
- shpxnvz 14y ago
  > On the other hand with the Mindstorms set you have these precision milled parts... From the video it looks like the regular old injection-molded plastic Lego bricks - are there new milled parts being used in the EV3 kit?
ngcoders 14y ago
We are trying to build something , with online ide and out of box program ability - http://baseapp.com/2012/12/basebot-basic-robot-kit-v1-specs/ http://baseapp.com/2012/12/basebot-basic-robot-kit-v1-specs/
flyinRyan 14y ago
I couldn't disagree more. $350 is about what it costs to get your kid an xbox/ps3 for Christmas. My family danced with the poverty line through my entire childhood and they could manage a one-off $300 purchase once every few years (provided I agreed to getting nothing else for birthday or Christmas).

by patja 14y ago

codereflection 14y ago

Price is one of two reasons why I chose to give my kids Arduino's instead of Mindstorms; the other being they're going to learn more about electronics and robotics than they will from Mindstorms.

EvanKelly 14y ago
As someone relatively inexperienced with both Arduino and Mindstorms, how do you feel the learning curve differs between the two? Without a knowledgable parent like yourself, do you think most curious kids would have the wherewithal to bend the Arduino to their will as easily as could be done with Mindstorms? Maybe there are some great "Arduino for Kids" books out there that help solve this problem, because I expect a lot of the Arduino documentation might be a little dense for a middle school aged child.
- kkwok 14y ago
  Having used both arduinos and mindstorms the learning curve is significantly higher with arduinos. You can basically directly build robots with mindstorms with no knowledge of programming. With an arduino it would take significantly longer to reach that point.

mikepurvis 14y ago

It's tough to get down that far, especially without volume. For example, the TI Evalbot, which is _literally_ just a PCB on wheels, is still $150: https://estore.ti.com/Search.aspx?k=evalbot https://estore.ti.com/Search.aspx?k=evalbot Even the iRobot Create, which benefits from the Roomba production infrastructure, sells its cheapest model for $130 (which includes no battery, charger, or brains). Not saying it isn't possible; just that it's difficult.

javery 14y ago

There is a huge untapped market of people like me who would gladly put up $50 to help you buy a set for your class. Setup a form somewhere and I will gladly donate.

vailripper 14y ago
http://www.donorschoose.org/ http://www.donorschoose.org/ was built for just this thing.

todayiamme 14y ago

>>> Mindstorms is pretty cool...but the price puts it out of reach of any but the well-heeled. I run an after school tech program for kids in grades 5 - 8 where we've worked with Scratch quite a bit, and did one session on robotics using the Pololu 3pi line-tracing/maze solving robots and the Parallax Mini-Sumo bots. These robots run $100 - $150 each as opposed to the Mindstorms $250+ (now $350) price point. <<< I have tested the Parallax Sumo bots and Mindstorms and I'm firmly of the opinion that the Mindstorms set represents better value. The thing is that at the end of the day the Parallax Sumo bots are one trick ponies and have a fixed chassis and configuration around which you really can't extend without some effort. Even if you do put in the effort, then your design is constrained by the type of chassis the machine came with. For example, you can't easily convert the sumo bot into a hexapedal or bipedal walker. The value proposition for these machines rests solely on programming them in beautiful ways and it really isn't possible for a child to extend the machine itself. Assemble it yes, but it extend it? Not yet. On the other hand with the Mindstorms set you have these precision milled parts that can be combined in endless ways by anyone to create anything from walkers to holonomic drives. There's also the benefit of the entire Lego range, you can easily mix and match all of these parts and combine them in countless ways with one another to give you literally any type of machine you want without getting out a file or a drill. That's something that instantly appeals to children and I remember the amazing feeling I used to get out of playing with Mindstorms when I was a little girl. I could actually create something that was "alive," and there was nothing better than that. Programming seemed dull and useless to me as compared to putting these pieces together and bringing them to life, somehow. It was captivating and it's what gave me the real push towards actually learning engineering. That's a miracle if you think about it and it represents great value. >>> There is a huge untapped market for a programmable robot at the $50 - $100 price point. <<< It's actually quite easy to build something yourself at that price point. Get $3 DC motors, waste aluminium channelling from build sites, acrylic, gear boxes + wheels, wires, an arduino, and a few screws. Build a frame out of the channelling, use the acrylic sheets as a type of wall, drill and mount motors on the acrylic sheets and put the arduino on somewhere with pencil cells. You're good to go.

shpxnvz 14y ago
> On the other hand with the Mindstorms set you have these precision milled parts... From the video it looks like the regular old injection-molded plastic Lego bricks - are there new milled parts being used in the EV3 kit?

ngcoders 14y ago

We are trying to build something , with online ide and out of box program ability - http://baseapp.com/2012/12/basebot-basic-robot-kit-v1-specs/ http://baseapp.com/2012/12/basebot-basic-robot-kit-v1-specs/

flyinRyan 14y ago

I couldn't disagree more. $350 is about what it costs to get your kid an xbox/ps3 for Christmas. My family danced with the poverty line through my entire childhood and they could manage a one-off $300 purchase once every few years (provided I agreed to getting nothing else for birthday or Christmas).