4 ms·

>So what makes a zebra a zebra then? I don’t want to get into it, but basically, I take the position that you can’t define something by what it is, you have to

>So what makes a zebra a zebra then? I don’t want to get into it, but basically, I take the position that you can’t define something by what it is, you have to define it by what it does. I like that the author doesn't embarrass himself by attempting to define a Zebra by what it does.

steveklabnik 14y ago
Haha. :) On a more serious note: philosophers who use a process-based ontology/metaphysics would be a little more careful with words: you're defined by your position in given historical processes. Some of these, of course, are initiated by you, hence 'what you do.' So in the case of a zebra, it's a zebra because it's genesis lies in a historical process: zebras giving birth. If you have two parents who are zebras, then you're a zebra. The first zebras became zebras once they are unable to sexually reproduce with another species, I forget the exact biology term here. For another example, I'm a citizen of the United States because I'm part of a historical process by which people are born in a particular space, both geographical and political, over a certain time period. I don't possess some sort of intrinsic US-ian property. If you're interested in this kind of thing, Whitehead, Deleuze, and more recently, de Landa (who I adapted the zebra example from) are all materialists who replace identity with process.
- garblegarble 14y ago
  >I forget the exact biology term here I think "speciation" is the word you're looking for. No idea why I remember that!
  - steveklabnik 14y ago
    Yes, when I tried to look that up, I mis-spelled it so poorly that Google couldn't help me out. Thank you. I feel like there was another related terms, specifically about the point where reproduction can't happen. "genesis" was in there somewhere, I thought. Regardless, thanks.
- tedkimble 14y ago
  Deleuzian materialists on HN! Deleuze and de Landa were my primary inspirations during graduate architecture school. I wrote about how such thinking might be incorporated into a web design.[1] [1]: http://kimble.co/2012/bottom-up-web-design-and-the-materiality-of-the-web.html http://kimble.co/2012/bottom-up-web-design-and-the-materiali...
  - steveklabnik 14y ago
    Haha, the soap bubble: yep, that's de Landa alright. Great post, I really enjoyed it. You know, something about de Landa bothers me a bit, maybe you can chew on this and sometime, we'll discuss it: he wants to "de-postmodernize Deleueze" (even though he's careful that Deleuze isn't pomo, just that he uses dense words), but I'm not entirely sure that you can really separate, say, A Thousand Plateaus from the performative properties of the text. It seems strange to me that a materialist would want to remove the ideas from the primary material that they came from. That said, he does a damn good job of making it a bit more accessible, especially to technologists.
- davesims 14y ago
  Great references Steve -- also check out Whitehead contemporary Henri Bergson, who I think is criminally overlooked in this category, and a huge influence on Deleuze.
  - steveklabnik 14y ago
    Yep, Bergson in general is on my list, but as with anything, it's hard to get through everything: obviously, multiplicity is very important to Deleuze! I don't have anything specific yet, though: what would you suggest?
throwaway528356 14y ago
What does a zebra do - act zebra-like. But what in that, specifically, makes it a zebra? The fact that by its acts, dress, behavior, looks, etc, it convinces it us to name it a zebra. What a zebra does, then, is convince us that it is a zebra. This is what separates it from horses or, indeed, monkeys.

steveklabnik 14y ago

Haha. :) On a more serious note: philosophers who use a process-based ontology/metaphysics would be a little more careful with words: you're defined by your position in given historical processes. Some of these, of course, are initiated by you, hence 'what you do.' So in the case of a zebra, it's a zebra because it's genesis lies in a historical process: zebras giving birth. If you have two parents who are zebras, then you're a zebra. The first zebras became zebras once they are unable to sexually reproduce with another species, I forget the exact biology term here. For another example, I'm a citizen of the United States because I'm part of a historical process by which people are born in a particular space, both geographical and political, over a certain time period. I don't possess some sort of intrinsic US-ian property. If you're interested in this kind of thing, Whitehead, Deleuze, and more recently, de Landa (who I adapted the zebra example from) are all materialists who replace identity with process.

garblegarble 14y ago
>I forget the exact biology term here I think "speciation" is the word you're looking for. No idea why I remember that!
- steveklabnik 14y ago
  Yes, when I tried to look that up, I mis-spelled it so poorly that Google couldn't help me out. Thank you. I feel like there was another related terms, specifically about the point where reproduction can't happen. "genesis" was in there somewhere, I thought. Regardless, thanks.
tedkimble 14y ago
Deleuzian materialists on HN! Deleuze and de Landa were my primary inspirations during graduate architecture school. I wrote about how such thinking might be incorporated into a web design.[1] [1]: http://kimble.co/2012/bottom-up-web-design-and-the-materiality-of-the-web.html http://kimble.co/2012/bottom-up-web-design-and-the-materiali...
- steveklabnik 14y ago
  Haha, the soap bubble: yep, that's de Landa alright. Great post, I really enjoyed it. You know, something about de Landa bothers me a bit, maybe you can chew on this and sometime, we'll discuss it: he wants to "de-postmodernize Deleueze" (even though he's careful that Deleuze isn't pomo, just that he uses dense words), but I'm not entirely sure that you can really separate, say, A Thousand Plateaus from the performative properties of the text. It seems strange to me that a materialist would want to remove the ideas from the primary material that they came from. That said, he does a damn good job of making it a bit more accessible, especially to technologists.
davesims 14y ago
Great references Steve -- also check out Whitehead contemporary Henri Bergson, who I think is criminally overlooked in this category, and a huge influence on Deleuze.
- steveklabnik 14y ago
  Yep, Bergson in general is on my list, but as with anything, it's hard to get through everything: obviously, multiplicity is very important to Deleuze! I don't have anything specific yet, though: what would you suggest?

throwaway528356 14y ago

What does a zebra do - act zebra-like. But what in that, specifically, makes it a zebra? The fact that by its acts, dress, behavior, looks, etc, it convinces it us to name it a zebra. What a zebra does, then, is convince us that it is a zebra. This is what separates it from horses or, indeed, monkeys.