5 ms·

It's probably been said over and over again, but the problem is that Linux (or I guess Ubuntu) isn't really easy to use for the non-tech type. It's an OS that g

by jxi 14y ago

It's probably been said over and over again, but the problem is that Linux (or I guess Ubuntu) isn't really easy to use for the non-tech type. It's an OS that gives you an interface to your computer, not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do. However, after switching to Mac, I've realized Windows is not really easy to use either, but that's been kind of shoved down people's throats since they were young, so people kind of know their way around it. Dumbification does imply simplification though so I think it's generally a right direction and may be one factor that makes ChromeOS appealing (the problem there though is that it lacks a few fundamental features right now, but that's more easily fixable).

drivebyacct2 14y ago
>not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do Huh? Unity, especially with auto-hide is literally more out-of-your-way than any other Desktop Environment in any Operating System I can think of. (And I don't even like Unity, I like Cinnamon and Elementary which are very similar to the Windows XP/7 and OS X style desktop environments.) I'm just really exhausted of non-specific "it's hard to use". (Keep in mind I was specifically talking about pre-installed, though the Windows/Ubuntu installers are nearly the same). If I asked someone to install iTunes in Windows versus install Rhythmbox in Ubuntu, I know which would be easier for someone who had never used either before. Go to a website, download an EXE, bypass the scary security prompt, walk through a six step installer asking about location, menu entries and more. Or open Software Center, type "music player", pick one and click "Install". If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that.
- unimpressive 14y ago
  >If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that. That's basically the answer. That and it's hard to use because most of the software in a windows power users toolkit is windows only. So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    >So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash. A very eye-opening analogy and one that I can obviously more than sympathize with. (Although Git kindly installs Git Bash now which is appreciated.)
- jxi 14y ago
  Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. Yea, I did make the point above that Windows is not easy to use either (heck imo it's worse that Linux now), but people are just used to it, so it's perceived to be easier to use. For your example on Mac though, you simply just drag and drop which is by far the simplest.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    >Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. More hand-waving. Don't know what to tell you, I've been using Ubuntu for years and I've never had anything break, certainly not magically on it's own as you seem to be implying. This stinks of FUD. >For your example on Mac though, you simplyt just drag and drop which is by far the simplest. Oh come on. The newest version of OS X requires that you ignore a huge security prompt, manually disable GateKeeper!!!, download a DMG, double click the DMG, know that you need to drag that App.app to your /Applications/ folder and then run it... clicking through yet another a security prompt telling you that you downloaded it from the Internet. The "app store" model that Ubuntu deployed years ago via USC is so popular that it's the model that iOS, Android, WP7, Windows 8, and now even OS X push as their primary app distribution and installation route...
    - Shank 14y ago
      I can't count the number of times I've had to boot to graphics failsafe mode to fix graphics drivers after a kernel update. I've never managed to get my motherboard to output sound correctly in Ubuntu, no how many different variations of installing, purging, and reinstalling packages I do. Windows in failsafe is a lot more user friendly (safe mode, startup repair, etc.) than Linux's "dump you into a terminal" approach.
      - drivebyacct2 14y ago
monsterix 14y ago
Quite true. The problem is that non-tech type is not a young market anymore. Young are savvier than ever on both hardware and software and it is quite cool among college goers to say "I am on linux man". Interesting times indeed. Gonna get harder for MS/Apple to make money off this turf it seems.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  "it is quite cool among college goers to say "I am on linux man". [...] Gonna get harder for MS/Apple to make money off this turf it seems." The same college goers tend to buy MacBooks, so I think Apple will be just fine.
  - monsterix 14y ago
    I have seen a couple of kids rave about how much "love Apple has poured into its interfaces..." (yes, that is actual statement) and yet with Steve gone, there seems lack of right leadership or a visionary up there. So "linux for me!", even though at the back of the mind it was still about saving those dollars. This is the picture I have seen so far. En masse? Well only time would tell.

by jxi 14y ago

drivebyacct2 14y ago

>not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do Huh? Unity, especially with auto-hide is literally more out-of-your-way than any other Desktop Environment in any Operating System I can think of. (And I don't even like Unity, I like Cinnamon and Elementary which are very similar to the Windows XP/7 and OS X style desktop environments.) I'm just really exhausted of non-specific "it's hard to use". (Keep in mind I was specifically talking about pre-installed, though the Windows/Ubuntu installers are nearly the same). If I asked someone to install iTunes in Windows versus install Rhythmbox in Ubuntu, I know which would be easier for someone who had never used either before. Go to a website, download an EXE, bypass the scary security prompt, walk through a six step installer asking about location, menu entries and more. Or open Software Center, type "music player", pick one and click "Install". If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that.

unimpressive 14y ago
>If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that. That's basically the answer. That and it's hard to use because most of the software in a windows power users toolkit is windows only. So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash. A very eye-opening analogy and one that I can obviously more than sympathize with. (Although Git kindly installs Git Bash now which is appreciated.)
jxi 14y ago
Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. Yea, I did make the point above that Windows is not easy to use either (heck imo it's worse that Linux now), but people are just used to it, so it's perceived to be easier to use. For your example on Mac though, you simply just drag and drop which is by far the simplest.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. More hand-waving. Don't know what to tell you, I've been using Ubuntu for years and I've never had anything break, certainly not magically on it's own as you seem to be implying. This stinks of FUD. >For your example on Mac though, you simplyt just drag and drop which is by far the simplest. Oh come on. The newest version of OS X requires that you ignore a huge security prompt, manually disable GateKeeper!!!, download a DMG, double click the DMG, know that you need to drag that App.app to your /Applications/ folder and then run it... clicking through yet another a security prompt telling you that you downloaded it from the Internet. The "app store" model that Ubuntu deployed years ago via USC is so popular that it's the model that iOS, Android, WP7, Windows 8, and now even OS X push as their primary app distribution and installation route...
  - Shank 14y ago
    I can't count the number of times I've had to boot to graphics failsafe mode to fix graphics drivers after a kernel update. I've never managed to get my motherboard to output sound correctly in Ubuntu, no how many different variations of installing, purging, and reinstalling packages I do. Windows in failsafe is a lot more user friendly (safe mode, startup repair, etc.) than Linux's "dump you into a terminal" approach.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago

monsterix 14y ago

Quite true. The problem is that non-tech type is not a young market anymore. Young are savvier than ever on both hardware and software and it is quite cool among college goers to say "I am on linux man". Interesting times indeed. Gonna get harder for MS/Apple to make money off this turf it seems.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago
"it is quite cool among college goers to say "I am on linux man". [...] Gonna get harder for MS/Apple to make money off this turf it seems." The same college goers tend to buy MacBooks, so I think Apple will be just fine.
- monsterix 14y ago
  I have seen a couple of kids rave about how much "love Apple has poured into its interfaces..." (yes, that is actual statement) and yet with Steve gone, there seems lack of right leadership or a visionary up there. So "linux for me!", even though at the back of the mind it was still about saving those dollars. This is the picture I have seen so far. En masse? Well only time would tell.