12 ms·

Amazon's top selling laptop doesn't run Windows or Mac OS, it runs Linux

205 points by iProject 14y ago

drivebyacct2 14y ago
Funny that Linux is everywhere in the form of Android and Chrome OS, but for all the efforts of Linux on the Desktop, it just isn't terribly successful. Is it a marketing thing? By all measures, Ubuntu (preinstalled) on a laptop is more functional than Chrome OS, or is the continuation of the dumbification of computing interfaces?
- CGamesPlay 14y ago
  It has a lot to do with diversity: Android and Chromebook are (mostly) the same thing. With desktop Linux, you're supporting every different distribution, hardware, driver, and custom configuration.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    >Android and Chromebook are (mostly) the same thing What do you mean?
    - Shank 14y ago
      Probably in regards to how they're licensed and sold. A chromebook is approved by Google and Chrome OS is developed to run on it. Android is compiled per device so that nothing will break, done by the manufacturer.
- jxi 14y ago
  It's probably been said over and over again, but the problem is that Linux (or I guess Ubuntu) isn't really easy to use for the non-tech type. It's an OS that gives you an interface to your computer, not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do. However, after switching to Mac, I've realized Windows is not really easy to use either, but that's been kind of shoved down people's throats since they were young, so people kind of know their way around it. Dumbification does imply simplification though so I think it's generally a right direction and may be one factor that makes ChromeOS appealing (the problem there though is that it lacks a few fundamental features right now, but that's more easily fixable).
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    >not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do Huh? Unity, especially with auto-hide is literally more out-of-your-way than any other Desktop Environment in any Operating System I can think of. (And I don't even like Unity, I like Cinnamon and Elementary which are very similar to the Windows XP/7 and OS X style desktop environments.) I'm just really exhausted of non-specific "it's hard to use". (Keep in mind I was specifically talking about pre-installed, though the Windows/Ubuntu installers are nearly the same). If I asked someone to install iTunes in Windows versus install Rhythmbox in Ubuntu, I know which would be easier for someone who had never used either before. Go to a website, download an EXE, bypass the scary security prompt, walk through a six step installer asking about location, menu entries and more. Or open Software Center, type "music player", pick one and click "Install". If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that.
    - unimpressive 14y ago
      >If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that. That's basically the answer. That and it's hard to use because most of the software in a windows power users toolkit is windows only. So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash.
      - drivebyacct2 14y ago
        >So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash. A very eye-opening analogy and one that I can obviously more than sympathize with. (Although Git kindly installs Git Bash now which is appreciated.)
    - jxi 14y ago
      Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. Yea, I did make the point above that Windows is not easy to use either (heck imo it's worse that Linux now), but people are just used to it, so it's perceived to be easier to use. For your example on Mac though, you simply just drag and drop which is by far the simplest.
- lucid00 14y ago
  I think the problem with Linux was that it has no argument for it. Everything is just "it's just like Windows and Mac OS, except it's not" and not always equates to "free, open source, no cost, no licence fees, customizable, faster, etc..." but never anything that was a true blue selling point. To the users that have the know how to switch to Linux, all it sounds like is a slight upgrade over their existing setup with less software support. I think Chrome OS is slowly getting attention because it gets out of your way completely. No setup, no worries about losing files, extremely low risk of viruses or malware, you already understand it, and it's the easiest to leave in case you don't like it.
  - unimpressive 14y ago
    This. I have more than one friend who says that what they have works, plus they want to play games. EDIT: I have trouble explaining to them that the "slight upgrade" is probably an unbelievable improvement in many aspects. (But a significant downgrade in many others.)
- slurry 14y ago
  The problem is the GUI. X with multiple widget toolkits laid over it and a desktop environment laid over that is a lot of moving parts that can go wrong. Android and ChromeOS and TiVo and your embedded-Linux toaster don't have this problem. They don't need to run legacy X applications and have monolithic GUI's built from the ground up.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    So, the dumbification of the computer. That's fine, I guess. I'll be the old foagie at the age of 25 who actually owns a real computer that can do more than one thing at one time. Funny that people applaud these "simple" interfaces but whine and moan about gnome-shell embracing a simple, full-screen app, full-screen launcher model...
    - slurry 14y ago
      I'm talking about simplicity of implementation, not interface. The fact that you use a windowing system that was designed for remoting but not displaying wigets for not-remoting but displaying widgets does not make you (or me) smarter.
      - drivebyacct2 14y ago
        I don't understand what X's network transparency has to do with any of this...
        gte910h 14y ago
        It makes testing software damn hard. You can't justify testing 25 configurations of Linux. There just aren't enough dollars there to justify it. Chromebook and android each present relatively fewer targets to shoot at.
- lucian1900 14y ago
  The only way to get this popular is to have nice devices sold with the OS installed. Too few people install their own to matter.
- gte910h 14y ago
  IMO, X-windows is the culprit. The lack of a real winner takes all windowing solution on Linux means everyone has their different flavor of desktop, all of which are slightly different everywhere. And not like Android different, far worse as far as fragmentation goes, especially sound (if you feel like pointing out sound isn't part of the user interface, I'm going to point out you're not the person who feels undeserved by Linux as is). I predict Android on the desktop before Linux on the desktop, and if Linux comes to the desktop, it will come mostly from the work of VALVe saying "This is in" and "This is out" and pick the winners and merge them together into a cohesive whole.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    The existence of X has nothing to do with the multitude of desktop environments. At all. In fact they are almost all working or working to port over to Wayland/Weston already anyway. Why on God's earth would someone want Android on a desktop machine? Why does there need to be one dominant DE anyway? The day that happens is the day the core base of Linux users ditches Linux. It flatly will never happen. You think KDE is going to one day just say "okay GNOME, we quit"?
    - gte910h 14y ago
      >Why does there need to be one dominant DE anyway? Because, if a company is going to write software to run on lots of machines and be closed sourced like most commercial software, it is going to require a pretty stable target to run on. When there are 25 different popular Linux configurations, it is prohibitively expensive to test them all for the number of individual users for each configurations. > You think KDE is going to one day just say "okay GNOME, we quit"? No, I think game/software vendors are going to ignore one or the other, following the lead of someone like valve. Then that one will become very niche, like the BSDs
Tloewald 14y ago
Microsoft may not last as long as we (I) have always assumed — on the PC front at least it seems to be bad news and more bad news. Mobile sales already dwarf desktop, and installed base will soon follow. Even if MS is successful in mobile, there's far less fat to play with — it can't sustain licensing costs (netbooks already dinged it) either for OS or applications, and its network effect lockin is pretty much broken. Interesting times.
- evandena 14y ago
  Their enterprise division is huge, and Office is still a cash cow. They may have to trim some fat at some point, but they aren't even close to hurting.
  - slurry 14y ago
    And beyond Office, if you're a non-technical business with employees in the low dozens, pretty much no one is even interested in selling you a full stack of software + support besides Microsoft and its approved partners. Pretty much any office with like 25 people that's not in design or tech is top to bottom Microsoft, not just Windows and office but inventory, HR software, whatever else all running on MS and sold by either a Microsoft subsidiary or might-as-well-be-a-subsidiary channel partners. That's the vast majority of offices. And the lower number that are large/savvy enough to be pickier on backend systems still buy Windows and Office licenses anyway. On the flipside, it's hard not to see mobile platforms eventually cannibalizing Windows from below, the way PC platforms (like Windows and GNU/Linux) eventually cannibalized minicomputer platforms, which in turn had cannibalized mainframe platforms.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  The Titanic took two hours and forty minutes to sink. Long enough for someone to make a motion picture about it. Microsoft is a lot larger than is readily apparent. That's because in the enterprise they're about as entrenched as can be. Take away excel and the impact would be about as bad as taking away google would be (or maybe even worse). MS will be around in some form or another for a long time. The question is more whether or not they'll be able to leverage the remains of the old into something new. My guess is not as long as Ballmer is still around.
jamesaguilar 14y ago
Ah, let's remember one thing real quick. When people talk about macbooks being the best selling laptop line by a large margin, someone else always points out that that is because it represents the entire access to that ecosystem (i.e. the total sales are not split between brands). In this case, you're also looking at a very cheap laptop in an OS where there are only two MODELS even on sale, one of which is older. It does not necessarily, or even probably, signal a sea change in the way people think about OSes.
- tankbot 14y ago
  > It does not necessarily, or even probably, signal a sea change in the way people think about OSes. I think this is a true statement and I agree completely, but only because Joe Averageuser doesn't think about OS's _at all_. I think this very much does signal a sea change in the way people use their computers. There will always be folks like you and me who want to get down to the nuts and bolts of things and start tweaking, but most people just want to check their email/facebook and work on that spreadsheet/document for the boss. For years we have all been talking about what moving 'to the cloud' would mean for computing as a whole and now it's happening. Your data goes with you wherever you go and your computer is a super cheap and nigh-disposable way to access it. The writing is definitely on the wall. In fact, at this point, it's been there long enough that it's starting to fade a little.
tuananh 14y ago
Apple sells Macbook via Apple Store. The title is misleading.
- abraham 14y ago
  How is the title misleading? It's #1 sold on Amazon, not #1 of all laptops sold. > Amazon's top selling laptop doesn't run Windows or Mac OS, it runs Linux
  - tuananh 14y ago
    It's like saying "Windows phone is the only smartphone on market that support Live Tiles".
    - vvhn 14y ago
      Actually, it's not. Apple does sell Macbooks through Amazon. No iPhones or iPads but Amazon has been selling Macs forever - http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2423178011 http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2423178011
      - tuananh 14y ago
        I didn't see many people order Macbook from Amazon while they can do it directly from Apple Store.
        corin_ 14y ago
        Are the prices the same? When I wanted a new iPod a month ago, Amazon's prices were significantly lower than Apple Store's, even for the newly released generation of Nanos.
        vvhn 14y ago
        they are usually slightly cheaper and till very recently in California, significantly cheaper because of the no sales tax advantage they had. The final price was >10% lower just because of that but Amazon doesn't have that advantage anymore.
shmerl 14y ago
I'd prefer to see more high end laptops with normal Linux to be sold.
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  The Thinkpads I buy run Linux. Except of course I pay the Microsoft tax and Lenovo never knows that they actually sold a Linux laptop not a Windows laptop. I use the Windows for configuring BIOS fingerprint access and in the olden days playing the occasional game.
  - shmerl 14y ago
    Did you ever succeed in getting your Windows tax back in case when you don't need Windows? Lenovo's refusal to provide such option is actually illegal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund
    - rogerbinns 14y ago
      The legality varies by country. In general they just say that they are selling the system and software as a whole so you can return everything for a refund. In any event it is too late now.
      - shmerl 14y ago
        I think it's surely illegal in EU, but it also must be illegal in US, at least in theory, based on the Clayton Act: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/14 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/14 However I'm interested if anyone actually succeeded in proving it in some small claims court. There are legal precedents of victories against tying policies of Lenovo and the like in Europe, but I didn't find any similar examples in US.
        rogerbinns 14y ago
        It is a lot harder in the US and too late for me anyway. They'll offer to take the whole system back, not just parts. (In the same way you can't get a refund for the headrests in a car if you don't want them.)
so898 14y ago
As the Windows Phone get the top selling smart phone in Amazon, I do not trust any list from Amazon anymore. I think they make these lists for some reasons.
- abraham 14y ago
  WP isn't even in the top 20 of best selling phones on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011/ http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-S...
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    That is because Amazon had been running out of stock of the Lumia 920, so people began to look elsewhere. Previously: http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-still-got-ittopping-att-best-sellers-on-amazon/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-still-got-ittopping-a... http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-swarms-amazons-best-seller-charts/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-swarms-amazons-best-s... http://wmpoweruser.com/now-even-amazon-is-complaining-of-tremendous-demand-for-the-nokia-lumia-920/ http://wmpoweruser.com/now-even-amazon-is-complaining-of-tre...
    - abraham 14y ago
      Except it's in stock right now: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-920-Windows-Phone/dp/B00A2V7BA4/ http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-920-Windows-Phone/dp/B00A2... And the Chromebook in question has been out of stock from Amazon and only available through resalers at a significant markup.
MattRogish 14y ago
I have the first CR-48 Chromebook that Google sent out a few years ago. The first iterations of Chrome OS were a disaster. It was basically a full-screen version of Chrome browser behind a login window. Ugh. However, for kicks and grins I pulled out the CR-48 a little while ago and was pleasantly surprised that I was able to update to the latest version and - gasp - it was actually quite usable! I have been using it on and off ever since (it sits in our conference room as a general note-taking and projector device) and I must say - there's absolutely something to this thing. The battery life is great (like 9 hours), screen is OK, keyboard is nice. Trackpad is still miserable. For the most part my non-professional-work-life lives in a Chrome window anyway (gmail, google docs). If it had a decent text editor (I guess there's a SSH app you can get) I could see it working pretty well as a web development machine. But for the proverbial "Aunt Tillie", this would be not a terrible device if the iPad was a little too simple. Auto-updates, Chrome syncing, Google docs? Pretty compelling.
- lemma 14y ago
  I recently installed lubuntu on mine and was pleasantly surprised with the performance, although its probably not what Google had in mind. At least I'm still running chromium.
- redegg 14y ago
  > gasp - it was actually quite usable! It was the opposite for me. I've been using it for some time and stopped due to the constant crashing. Each new update I had hoped the stability would improve, but it seems they're for new features only the new models could flawlessly run. Alas, I gave up a month ago. It's sitting in my pile of netbooks.
  - Osiris 14y ago
    I have a CR-48 and I don't recall ever seeing it crash. Are you referring to a kernel panic or something that crashes the whole machine or just a browser tab crashing? My CR-48 is my 7 year old daughter's machine to play flash games and such. Unfortunately, the CPU/GPU is a but underpowered for full screen Adobe Flash content.
cooldeal 14y ago
Funny to see something even more locked down than Windows being cheered by the Linux crowd. There are no native apps,you need a Google account to access it(don't know what happens if your Google account happens to get disabled for whatever reason). Google neither releases the source for it's online offerings, not is it very useful even if they do. The kicker is that the 100GB free storage on Google's cloud is only free for 2 years, after which you have to pay for it. How is any of this better for consumer freedom than just Windows 7? The answer is not "because it has a developer switch on the back to install Ubuntu"; you can do that on a Windows PC as well. And an overwhelming percentage of normal consumers buying it won't be installing Ubuntu on it. In fact, I suspect that this kind of device that is absolutely at the mercy of a corporation is much closer to RMS dystopian vision than any Windows PC. Would it make any difference to the user or even developers if it ran GoOS as the kernel instead of Linux? This is pretty much like a Tivo or a router.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > The answer is not "because it has a developer switch on the back to install Ubuntu"; you can do that on a Windows PC as well. That's not necessarily true with UEFI secure boot.
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    For any x86 system it is.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      Which the Surface RT and this Chromebook aren't.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I really don't see why so many people expect this to be comforting. In one thread everyone will be so sure that ARM devices are the future, and in the next nobody needs to worry about secure boot because nobody will ever want to use ARM.
kurrent 14y ago
"it runs Linux".....a specialized version of Gentoo to be exact.
- vilgax 14y ago
  And what is Gentoo?
  - iProject 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gentoo_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gentoo_Linux
    - vilgax 14y ago
      I know what Gentoo is. My point is we don't say Ubuntu "a specialized version of Debian", yes it is derived from it but still basically its Linux.
tbirdz 14y ago
"Do you spend 90% of your time working on the Web? Using software-as-a-service or Web apps most of the time?" No and No. I guess chromebooks aren't for me.
- colin_jack 14y ago
  Even if you do I'd be careful in assuming a Chromebook is the answer. I bought one to use with C9 (IDE) but found Chrome OS very poor in terms of basic functionality and C9 ran unusably slowly on it.
- Nursie 14y ago
  Do you like hacking full linux distros onto devices which don't come with them pre-installed? Do you have a large hadron for ARM devices? Chromebooks might just be for you...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
black4eternity 14y ago
Most likely it is the 'not very tech savvy' crowd which is buying these laptops for themselves or others without realizing that it's not a fully functional Desktop OS. I can imagine a loving grandparent buying this affordable "Laptop" for their grand kids thinking this suits my budget. Or someone thinking sure this thing is like the one I have back at home.
- prewett 14y ago
  I imagine if the returns start getting out of hand that Amazon will put "Does not have Windows" prominently somewhere. Also, at least as of right now, the second review clearly mentions that this does not have Windows.
  - alan_cx 14y ago
    Not sure that would help that many grandparents. Not even sure my mother would understand. In fact, I'm pretty sure some of my kids wouldn't understand either. A lot of people see "laptop", or what ever, and expect it to do "laptop". Again, a geek assumption about what non-geeks know.
- dkhenry 14y ago
  I don't know about your parents, but mine don't browse Amazon looking for gifts for my kids. They go to BestBuy or Walmart and pick something up. Additionally in an office full of software developrs there are multiple people who are looking to pick one up or have already done so ( Myself included ). I think the "not very tech savvy" crowd would be buying the name brand laptops with Intel processors and Windows since that's what we have trained them to do for 20 years.
k_bx 14y ago
Skype. The only missing thing is skype.
- willvarfar 14y ago
  it has google hangout, though, right?
  - k_bx 14y ago
    Yes. But only if it would matter to current skype-users. I think Facebook would be able to replace skype quickly (since everybody have Facebook), but not Google.
    - steevdave 14y ago
      If they have a Chromebook, it's a good bet they have a Google account. Hangouts are one of the "apps" installed.
      - k_bx 14y ago
        I'm getting crazy on this. Just quick recap: 1. I did a statement that people who need skype won't buy it. 2. Someone told me that "these things have hangout instead". 3. I pointed that it doesn't matter since all your contacts are still in skype (and their contacts too), so you'll have to switch them all to hangout too. 4. Now you're saying "If they have a Chromebook, it's a good bet they have a Google account". How is it related at all???
  - corin_ 14y ago
    IM/VOIP software isn't like email where you just need an option, unless your only use for it is for making out-of-network calls (e.g. Skype-to-phone). If all my friends, all my colleagues, and all my clients are on Skype, then having an alternative doesn't help at all.
nicholassmith 14y ago
This is sort of like when netbooks took over a significant marketshare for a brief period. It's new, it's novel, more importantly it's cheap and that's a big motivator. When netbooks were selling like hotcakes a lot of them came with Linux distros pre-installed, so it's not like Linux doesn't get its moment in the sun every now and again.
smallegan 14y ago
I think return rate would be a very useful statistic for Amazon to give out. I love the Chrome OS but my guess is that many who buy these Chromebooks expect a full blown laptop and return them or sell them as soon as they realize it isn't. My local Best Buy has stopped carrying them for this reason.
RexRollman 14y ago
The most interesting thing about ChromeOS (to me) is the way that it updates. My understanding is the ChromeOS has two root partitions and when it updates, it updates the one it is not currently booted from. After updating, it then boots from the newly updated root. I haven't heard of this technique being used in any other Linux distribution and I think it is quite novel. Sure, it wastes some disk space, but that if fairly cheap these days.
eli 14y ago
That seems misleading. Sure, the ChromeBook is the best selling SKU, but wouldn't it make more sense to combine numbers for the 500GB MacBook Pro and the 750GB MacBook Pro?
plg 14y ago
The chromebook is not a general purpose computer, it is a google appliance. Like an iPod is not a computer, it's a music-playing appliance. Chromebook is not a computer, it's a gmail/google-docs/google-calendar appliance.
zura 14y ago
And the second top runs FreeDOS? I don't think that's relevant in the scope this article emphasizes.
chrisringrose 14y ago
It's misleading to make it sound like this is somehow a victory for Linux. This is a win for web apps. This is proof that traditional desktop apps are dying.
arindone 14y ago
For Mac OS sales in-store will always trump sales out-of-store; the Mac buying experience is quintessential for the average consumer. This comparing Linux Chromebook purchases on Amazon with Mac OS is irrelevant to me. I will say the comparison to Windows-based computers is a bit surprising however. Still, the type of person who buys a computer on Amazon is more tech-savvy anyway and would prefer a Linux-based OS as compared to the other two.

205 points by iProject 14y ago

Funny that Linux is everywhere in the form of Android and Chrome OS, but for all the efforts of Linux on the Desktop, it just isn't terribly successful. Is it a marketing thing? By all measures, Ubuntu (preinstalled) on a laptop is more functional than Chrome OS, or is the continuation of the dumbification of computing interfaces?

CGamesPlay 14y ago
It has a lot to do with diversity: Android and Chromebook are (mostly) the same thing. With desktop Linux, you're supporting every different distribution, hardware, driver, and custom configuration.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >Android and Chromebook are (mostly) the same thing What do you mean?
  - Shank 14y ago
    Probably in regards to how they're licensed and sold. A chromebook is approved by Google and Chrome OS is developed to run on it. Android is compiled per device so that nothing will break, done by the manufacturer.
jxi 14y ago
It's probably been said over and over again, but the problem is that Linux (or I guess Ubuntu) isn't really easy to use for the non-tech type. It's an OS that gives you an interface to your computer, not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do. However, after switching to Mac, I've realized Windows is not really easy to use either, but that's been kind of shoved down people's throats since they were young, so people kind of know their way around it. Dumbification does imply simplification though so I think it's generally a right direction and may be one factor that makes ChromeOS appealing (the problem there though is that it lacks a few fundamental features right now, but that's more easily fixable).
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >not an OS that will get out of the way and just help you do what you need to do Huh? Unity, especially with auto-hide is literally more out-of-your-way than any other Desktop Environment in any Operating System I can think of. (And I don't even like Unity, I like Cinnamon and Elementary which are very similar to the Windows XP/7 and OS X style desktop environments.) I'm just really exhausted of non-specific "it's hard to use". (Keep in mind I was specifically talking about pre-installed, though the Windows/Ubuntu installers are nearly the same). If I asked someone to install iTunes in Windows versus install Rhythmbox in Ubuntu, I know which would be easier for someone who had never used either before. Go to a website, download an EXE, bypass the scary security prompt, walk through a six step installer asking about location, menu entries and more. Or open Software Center, type "music player", pick one and click "Install". If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that.
  - unimpressive 14y ago
    >If "it's hard to use" because people are used to Windows, I throw my hands up, there's no way to reply to that. That's basically the answer. That and it's hard to use because most of the software in a windows power users toolkit is windows only. So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      >So using Linux for them is like using windows and wishing for bash. A very eye-opening analogy and one that I can obviously more than sympathize with. (Although Git kindly installs Git Bash now which is appreciated.)
  - jxi 14y ago
    Yes, I think Unity is slightly better, but another problem with most Linux distros is that when things break, it's way harder to fix that on Windows, and in my experience they seem to break all that time after even just a month of use. Yea, I did make the point above that Windows is not easy to use either (heck imo it's worse that Linux now), but people are just used to it, so it's perceived to be easier to use. For your example on Mac though, you simply just drag and drop which is by far the simplest.
lucid00 14y ago
I think the problem with Linux was that it has no argument for it. Everything is just "it's just like Windows and Mac OS, except it's not" and not always equates to "free, open source, no cost, no licence fees, customizable, faster, etc..." but never anything that was a true blue selling point. To the users that have the know how to switch to Linux, all it sounds like is a slight upgrade over their existing setup with less software support. I think Chrome OS is slowly getting attention because it gets out of your way completely. No setup, no worries about losing files, extremely low risk of viruses or malware, you already understand it, and it's the easiest to leave in case you don't like it.
- unimpressive 14y ago
  This. I have more than one friend who says that what they have works, plus they want to play games. EDIT: I have trouble explaining to them that the "slight upgrade" is probably an unbelievable improvement in many aspects. (But a significant downgrade in many others.)
slurry 14y ago
The problem is the GUI. X with multiple widget toolkits laid over it and a desktop environment laid over that is a lot of moving parts that can go wrong. Android and ChromeOS and TiVo and your embedded-Linux toaster don't have this problem. They don't need to run legacy X applications and have monolithic GUI's built from the ground up.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  So, the dumbification of the computer. That's fine, I guess. I'll be the old foagie at the age of 25 who actually owns a real computer that can do more than one thing at one time. Funny that people applaud these "simple" interfaces but whine and moan about gnome-shell embracing a simple, full-screen app, full-screen launcher model...
  - slurry 14y ago
    I'm talking about simplicity of implementation, not interface. The fact that you use a windowing system that was designed for remoting but not displaying wigets for not-remoting but displaying widgets does not make you (or me) smarter.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      I don't understand what X's network transparency has to do with any of this...
      - gte910h 14y ago
        It makes testing software damn hard. You can't justify testing 25 configurations of Linux. There just aren't enough dollars there to justify it. Chromebook and android each present relatively fewer targets to shoot at.
lucian1900 14y ago
The only way to get this popular is to have nice devices sold with the OS installed. Too few people install their own to matter.
gte910h 14y ago
IMO, X-windows is the culprit. The lack of a real winner takes all windowing solution on Linux means everyone has their different flavor of desktop, all of which are slightly different everywhere. And not like Android different, far worse as far as fragmentation goes, especially sound (if you feel like pointing out sound isn't part of the user interface, I'm going to point out you're not the person who feels undeserved by Linux as is). I predict Android on the desktop before Linux on the desktop, and if Linux comes to the desktop, it will come mostly from the work of VALVe saying "This is in" and "This is out" and pick the winners and merge them together into a cohesive whole.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  The existence of X has nothing to do with the multitude of desktop environments. At all. In fact they are almost all working or working to port over to Wayland/Weston already anyway. Why on God's earth would someone want Android on a desktop machine? Why does there need to be one dominant DE anyway? The day that happens is the day the core base of Linux users ditches Linux. It flatly will never happen. You think KDE is going to one day just say "okay GNOME, we quit"?
  - gte910h 14y ago
    >Why does there need to be one dominant DE anyway? Because, if a company is going to write software to run on lots of machines and be closed sourced like most commercial software, it is going to require a pretty stable target to run on. When there are 25 different popular Linux configurations, it is prohibitively expensive to test them all for the number of individual users for each configurations. > You think KDE is going to one day just say "okay GNOME, we quit"? No, I think game/software vendors are going to ignore one or the other, following the lead of someone like valve. Then that one will become very niche, like the BSDs

Tloewald 14y ago

Microsoft may not last as long as we (I) have always assumed — on the PC front at least it seems to be bad news and more bad news. Mobile sales already dwarf desktop, and installed base will soon follow. Even if MS is successful in mobile, there's far less fat to play with — it can't sustain licensing costs (netbooks already dinged it) either for OS or applications, and its network effect lockin is pretty much broken. Interesting times.

evandena 14y ago
Their enterprise division is huge, and Office is still a cash cow. They may have to trim some fat at some point, but they aren't even close to hurting.
- slurry 14y ago
  And beyond Office, if you're a non-technical business with employees in the low dozens, pretty much no one is even interested in selling you a full stack of software + support besides Microsoft and its approved partners. Pretty much any office with like 25 people that's not in design or tech is top to bottom Microsoft, not just Windows and office but inventory, HR software, whatever else all running on MS and sold by either a Microsoft subsidiary or might-as-well-be-a-subsidiary channel partners. That's the vast majority of offices. And the lower number that are large/savvy enough to be pickier on backend systems still buy Windows and Office licenses anyway. On the flipside, it's hard not to see mobile platforms eventually cannibalizing Windows from below, the way PC platforms (like Windows and GNU/Linux) eventually cannibalized minicomputer platforms, which in turn had cannibalized mainframe platforms.
jacquesm 14y ago
The Titanic took two hours and forty minutes to sink. Long enough for someone to make a motion picture about it. Microsoft is a lot larger than is readily apparent. That's because in the enterprise they're about as entrenched as can be. Take away excel and the impact would be about as bad as taking away google would be (or maybe even worse). MS will be around in some form or another for a long time. The question is more whether or not they'll be able to leverage the remains of the old into something new. My guess is not as long as Ballmer is still around.

jamesaguilar 14y ago

Ah, let's remember one thing real quick. When people talk about macbooks being the best selling laptop line by a large margin, someone else always points out that that is because it represents the entire access to that ecosystem (i.e. the total sales are not split between brands). In this case, you're also looking at a very cheap laptop in an OS where there are only two MODELS even on sale, one of which is older. It does not necessarily, or even probably, signal a sea change in the way people think about OSes.

tankbot 14y ago
> It does not necessarily, or even probably, signal a sea change in the way people think about OSes. I think this is a true statement and I agree completely, but only because Joe Averageuser doesn't think about OS's _at all_. I think this very much does signal a sea change in the way people use their computers. There will always be folks like you and me who want to get down to the nuts and bolts of things and start tweaking, but most people just want to check their email/facebook and work on that spreadsheet/document for the boss. For years we have all been talking about what moving 'to the cloud' would mean for computing as a whole and now it's happening. Your data goes with you wherever you go and your computer is a super cheap and nigh-disposable way to access it. The writing is definitely on the wall. In fact, at this point, it's been there long enough that it's starting to fade a little.

tuananh 14y ago

Apple sells Macbook via Apple Store. The title is misleading.

abraham 14y ago
How is the title misleading? It's #1 sold on Amazon, not #1 of all laptops sold. > Amazon's top selling laptop doesn't run Windows or Mac OS, it runs Linux
- tuananh 14y ago
  It's like saying "Windows phone is the only smartphone on market that support Live Tiles".
  - vvhn 14y ago
    Actually, it's not. Apple does sell Macbooks through Amazon. No iPhones or iPads but Amazon has been selling Macs forever - http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2423178011 http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2423178011
    - tuananh 14y ago
      I didn't see many people order Macbook from Amazon while they can do it directly from Apple Store.
      - corin_ 14y ago
        Are the prices the same? When I wanted a new iPod a month ago, Amazon's prices were significantly lower than Apple Store's, even for the newly released generation of Nanos.
        vvhn 14y ago
        they are usually slightly cheaper and till very recently in California, significantly cheaper because of the no sales tax advantage they had. The final price was >10% lower just because of that but Amazon doesn't have that advantage anymore.

shmerl 14y ago

I'd prefer to see more high end laptops with normal Linux to be sold.

rogerbinns 14y ago
The Thinkpads I buy run Linux. Except of course I pay the Microsoft tax and Lenovo never knows that they actually sold a Linux laptop not a Windows laptop. I use the Windows for configuring BIOS fingerprint access and in the olden days playing the occasional game.
- shmerl 14y ago
  Did you ever succeed in getting your Windows tax back in case when you don't need Windows? Lenovo's refusal to provide such option is actually illegal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund
  - rogerbinns 14y ago
    The legality varies by country. In general they just say that they are selling the system and software as a whole so you can return everything for a refund. In any event it is too late now.
    - shmerl 14y ago
      I think it's surely illegal in EU, but it also must be illegal in US, at least in theory, based on the Clayton Act: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/14 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/14 However I'm interested if anyone actually succeeded in proving it in some small claims court. There are legal precedents of victories against tying policies of Lenovo and the like in Europe, but I didn't find any similar examples in US.
      - rogerbinns 14y ago
        It is a lot harder in the US and too late for me anyway. They'll offer to take the whole system back, not just parts. (In the same way you can't get a refund for the headrests in a car if you don't want them.)

so898 14y ago

As the Windows Phone get the top selling smart phone in Amazon, I do not trust any list from Amazon anymore. I think they make these lists for some reasons.

abraham 14y ago
WP isn't even in the top 20 of best selling phones on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011/ http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-S...
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  That is because Amazon had been running out of stock of the Lumia 920, so people began to look elsewhere. Previously: http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-still-got-ittopping-att-best-sellers-on-amazon/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-still-got-ittopping-a... http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-swarms-amazons-best-seller-charts/ http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-920-swarms-amazons-best-s... http://wmpoweruser.com/now-even-amazon-is-complaining-of-tremendous-demand-for-the-nokia-lumia-920/ http://wmpoweruser.com/now-even-amazon-is-complaining-of-tre...
  - abraham 14y ago
    Except it's in stock right now: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-920-Windows-Phone/dp/B00A2V7BA4/ http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-920-Windows-Phone/dp/B00A2... And the Chromebook in question has been out of stock from Amazon and only available through resalers at a significant markup.

MattRogish 14y ago

I have the first CR-48 Chromebook that Google sent out a few years ago. The first iterations of Chrome OS were a disaster. It was basically a full-screen version of Chrome browser behind a login window. Ugh. However, for kicks and grins I pulled out the CR-48 a little while ago and was pleasantly surprised that I was able to update to the latest version and - gasp - it was actually quite usable! I have been using it on and off ever since (it sits in our conference room as a general note-taking and projector device) and I must say - there's absolutely something to this thing. The battery life is great (like 9 hours), screen is OK, keyboard is nice. Trackpad is still miserable. For the most part my non-professional-work-life lives in a Chrome window anyway (gmail, google docs). If it had a decent text editor (I guess there's a SSH app you can get) I could see it working pretty well as a web development machine. But for the proverbial "Aunt Tillie", this would be not a terrible device if the iPad was a little too simple. Auto-updates, Chrome syncing, Google docs? Pretty compelling.

lemma 14y ago
I recently installed lubuntu on mine and was pleasantly surprised with the performance, although its probably not what Google had in mind. At least I'm still running chromium.
redegg 14y ago
> gasp - it was actually quite usable! It was the opposite for me. I've been using it for some time and stopped due to the constant crashing. Each new update I had hoped the stability would improve, but it seems they're for new features only the new models could flawlessly run. Alas, I gave up a month ago. It's sitting in my pile of netbooks.
- Osiris 14y ago
  I have a CR-48 and I don't recall ever seeing it crash. Are you referring to a kernel panic or something that crashes the whole machine or just a browser tab crashing? My CR-48 is my 7 year old daughter's machine to play flash games and such. Unfortunately, the CPU/GPU is a but underpowered for full screen Adobe Flash content.

cooldeal 14y ago

Funny to see something even more locked down than Windows being cheered by the Linux crowd. There are no native apps,you need a Google account to access it(don't know what happens if your Google account happens to get disabled for whatever reason). Google neither releases the source for it's online offerings, not is it very useful even if they do. The kicker is that the 100GB free storage on Google's cloud is only free for 2 years, after which you have to pay for it. How is any of this better for consumer freedom than just Windows 7? The answer is not "because it has a developer switch on the back to install Ubuntu"; you can do that on a Windows PC as well. And an overwhelming percentage of normal consumers buying it won't be installing Ubuntu on it. In fact, I suspect that this kind of device that is absolutely at the mercy of a corporation is much closer to RMS dystopian vision than any Windows PC. Would it make any difference to the user or even developers if it ran GoOS as the kernel instead of Linux? This is pretty much like a Tivo or a router.

w1ntermute 14y ago
> The answer is not "because it has a developer switch on the back to install Ubuntu"; you can do that on a Windows PC as well. That's not necessarily true with UEFI secure boot.
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  For any x86 system it is.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Which the Surface RT and this Chromebook aren't.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I really don't see why so many people expect this to be comforting. In one thread everyone will be so sure that ARM devices are the future, and in the next nobody needs to worry about secure boot because nobody will ever want to use ARM.

kurrent 14y ago

"it runs Linux".....a specialized version of Gentoo to be exact.

vilgax 14y ago
And what is Gentoo?
- iProject 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gentoo_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gentoo_Linux
  - vilgax 14y ago
    I know what Gentoo is. My point is we don't say Ubuntu "a specialized version of Debian", yes it is derived from it but still basically its Linux.

tbirdz 14y ago

"Do you spend 90% of your time working on the Web? Using software-as-a-service or Web apps most of the time?" No and No. I guess chromebooks aren't for me.

colin_jack 14y ago
Even if you do I'd be careful in assuming a Chromebook is the answer. I bought one to use with C9 (IDE) but found Chrome OS very poor in terms of basic functionality and C9 ran unusably slowly on it.
Nursie 14y ago
Do you like hacking full linux distros onto devices which don't come with them pre-installed? Do you have a large hadron for ARM devices? Chromebooks might just be for you...

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

black4eternity 14y ago

Most likely it is the 'not very tech savvy' crowd which is buying these laptops for themselves or others without realizing that it's not a fully functional Desktop OS. I can imagine a loving grandparent buying this affordable "Laptop" for their grand kids thinking this suits my budget. Or someone thinking sure this thing is like the one I have back at home.

prewett 14y ago
I imagine if the returns start getting out of hand that Amazon will put "Does not have Windows" prominently somewhere. Also, at least as of right now, the second review clearly mentions that this does not have Windows.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  Not sure that would help that many grandparents. Not even sure my mother would understand. In fact, I'm pretty sure some of my kids wouldn't understand either. A lot of people see "laptop", or what ever, and expect it to do "laptop". Again, a geek assumption about what non-geeks know.
dkhenry 14y ago
I don't know about your parents, but mine don't browse Amazon looking for gifts for my kids. They go to BestBuy or Walmart and pick something up. Additionally in an office full of software developrs there are multiple people who are looking to pick one up or have already done so ( Myself included ). I think the "not very tech savvy" crowd would be buying the name brand laptops with Intel processors and Windows since that's what we have trained them to do for 20 years.

k_bx 14y ago

Skype. The only missing thing is skype.

willvarfar 14y ago
it has google hangout, though, right?
- k_bx 14y ago
  Yes. But only if it would matter to current skype-users. I think Facebook would be able to replace skype quickly (since everybody have Facebook), but not Google.
  - steevdave 14y ago
    If they have a Chromebook, it's a good bet they have a Google account. Hangouts are one of the "apps" installed.
    - k_bx 14y ago
      I'm getting crazy on this. Just quick recap: 1. I did a statement that people who need skype won't buy it. 2. Someone told me that "these things have hangout instead". 3. I pointed that it doesn't matter since all your contacts are still in skype (and their contacts too), so you'll have to switch them all to hangout too. 4. Now you're saying "If they have a Chromebook, it's a good bet they have a Google account". How is it related at all???
- corin_ 14y ago
  IM/VOIP software isn't like email where you just need an option, unless your only use for it is for making out-of-network calls (e.g. Skype-to-phone). If all my friends, all my colleagues, and all my clients are on Skype, then having an alternative doesn't help at all.

nicholassmith 14y ago

This is sort of like when netbooks took over a significant marketshare for a brief period. It's new, it's novel, more importantly it's cheap and that's a big motivator. When netbooks were selling like hotcakes a lot of them came with Linux distros pre-installed, so it's not like Linux doesn't get its moment in the sun every now and again.

smallegan 14y ago

I think return rate would be a very useful statistic for Amazon to give out. I love the Chrome OS but my guess is that many who buy these Chromebooks expect a full blown laptop and return them or sell them as soon as they realize it isn't. My local Best Buy has stopped carrying them for this reason.

RexRollman 14y ago

The most interesting thing about ChromeOS (to me) is the way that it updates. My understanding is the ChromeOS has two root partitions and when it updates, it updates the one it is not currently booted from. After updating, it then boots from the newly updated root. I haven't heard of this technique being used in any other Linux distribution and I think it is quite novel. Sure, it wastes some disk space, but that if fairly cheap these days.

eli 14y ago

That seems misleading. Sure, the ChromeBook is the best selling SKU, but wouldn't it make more sense to combine numbers for the 500GB MacBook Pro and the 750GB MacBook Pro?

plg 14y ago

The chromebook is not a general purpose computer, it is a google appliance. Like an iPod is not a computer, it's a music-playing appliance. Chromebook is not a computer, it's a gmail/google-docs/google-calendar appliance.

zura 14y ago

And the second top runs FreeDOS? I don't think that's relevant in the scope this article emphasizes.

chrisringrose 14y ago

It's misleading to make it sound like this is somehow a victory for Linux. This is a win for web apps. This is proof that traditional desktop apps are dying.

arindone 14y ago

For Mac OS sales in-store will always trump sales out-of-store; the Mac buying experience is quintessential for the average consumer. This comparing Linux Chromebook purchases on Amazon with Mac OS is irrelevant to me. I will say the comparison to Windows-based computers is a bit surprising however. Still, the type of person who buys a computer on Amazon is more tech-savvy anyway and would prefer a Linux-based OS as compared to the other two.