"Java IDEs really get the job done" That is utterly misleading. Java IDEs really get the Java job done. And, sadly, Java is a language of such an incredible

"Java IDEs really get the job done" That is utterly misleading. Java IDEs really get the Java job done. And, sadly, Java is a language of such an incredible verboseness and containing so many idiosynchrasies that it takes a lot of code to do things. And IDEs do certainly excel at this. But you have to realize that a lot of the IDEs' functionalities when it comes to Java are really just work around Java's failures. So, yes, I can fire IDEA and it shall allow me "easily" work around a 100 000 LOC codebase. But if I can write the same program in 30 000 LOC of Go or 10 000 LOC of a Lisp dialect I think that there's still a jury out there trying to determine if Java IDEs are really that great. So I don't doubt that IDEA / Eclipse is helping you in your Java + ORM + XML hell but there are other ways to develop applications. Mind you: it's a huge world out there and despite your beloved IDEs being so great there are still people not programming in Java. Also the IDEs tend to suck quite a lot when we're talking about "non-Java JVM languages". Btw I'm using IntelliJ since so long I don't remember if it was version 3 or 4 and I just bought version 12. -- "Patterns means I have run out of language"