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Something really odd is going on at Google. In this post they say: "In our last test, IE mobile still did not offer a good maps experience with no ability to

Something really odd is going on at Google. In this post they say: "In our last test, IE mobile still did not offer a good maps experience with no ability to pan or zoom and perform basic map functionality. As a result, we chose to continue to redirect IE mobile users to Google.com where they could at least make local searches. The Firefox mobile browser did offer a somewhat better user experience and that’s why there is no redirect for those users. Recent improvements to IE mobile and Google Maps now deliver a better experience and we are currently working to remove the redirect." When did they last test it? In any case, why did they say this the day before: "The mobile web version of Google Maps is optimized for WebKit browsers such as Chrome and Safari. However, since Internet Explorer is not a WebKit browser, Windows Phone devices are not able to access Google Maps for the mobile web." Those aren't the same reason at all. And it's not like Google is a company that should be confused about how browsers and browser engines work. And of course here is video showing mobile IE working just fine on mobile Google Maps (pinch to zoom, panning, etc...): http://wmpoweruser.com/video-proves-that-the-google-maps-mobile-web-app-is-perfectly-usable-on-windows-phone/ http://wmpoweruser.com/video-proves-that-the-google-maps-mob... This coupled with the ending of GMail EAS support, not allowing YouTube APIs, and their explicit statement they are not going to support WP8, makes me think they have a clear mission to attack Windows Phone, but may have stepped a bit too far too quickly on this one. But I think they'll find a way to exclude support in the future if they can find a way.

nostrademons 14y ago
I can't speak for the Maps team because I'm not involved, and I can't speak for Google because, well, I can't speak for my employer. But I've been a developer in very similar situations before, and here's what pops into my mind when I hear statements like this: The team has been pushing hard to get the new functionality out the door. They are perhaps behind schedule, nobody has yet looked at IE, and then someone finally gets their hands on a Windows 8 phone to test. It doesn't work. The product manager makes the call: cut IE support so that the Webkit version can launch on time. A redirect's put in place to avoid serving a completely broken experience to Windows 8 users, so they can at least do a search for businesses instead of having it not work. They launch, the press picks it up, and conspiracy theories start flying. Somebody pages the team, emails start flying, there's a huddle to figure out how to fix it. An engineer (or a few engineers) "donate" their weekend to fixing IE compatibility. They work day and night until the bugs are fixed, and then remove the redirect. PR makes a statement, and then another one once the problem can be fixed. Like all PR statements, they try to say the minimum amount possible to calm people down, since everything they do say will get picked apart by the press. They aren't engineers, they know only what the engineers tell them, and they say even less because whatever the engineers say will get wildly distorted as it passes from engineer -> PM -> PR -> press -> Hacker News. Just my humble conjecture, as an engineer who's been in this situation several times before at a few different organizations (both Google and otherwise). I'd think critically before reaching for pitchforks, though.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  This seems to fit with the fact that even here on HN, people were claiming that Mobile Google Maps did not work with Mobile IE10 but now(?) does. That seems like it would be easy to overlook: Block for broken version, push new version, people change UA and find the new version works in IE10M? Who knows, either way, it seems like Google would rather have more users (for data/to brag about/to show ads to) than block them out of spite for a mobile platform that is still struggling to be relevant.
- Strshps1MoreTim 14y ago
  This is a possible scenario. On the other hand I've heard first hand a story about MS devs being ordered to break an MS web property on a competing browser. The manager who gave that order now works for Google.
  - nostrademons 14y ago
    Eegads, that's depressing. I'd like to think that he'd find that engineers at Google are nowhere near as compliant as they are at Microsoft if he tried that, though. There've been times I've questioned VPs about whether their decisions really are in the best interest of users. Sometimes they explain and I'm satisfied that it really is, and other times I've just flat out refused to do it without an experiment to verify, and we run the experiment and find that it's not, and then the executive lets it drop.
  - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
    If this is to be believed as anything other than rumor and innuendo, it would be productive if you could supply the manager's name. Both to prove that it's a real person, and so that anyone in a position to do so is better able to have them fired.
    - taligent 14y ago
      You deserve to be banned for this. You don't attempt to publicly slander a person's reputation (on an influential site like HN no less) based on unsubstantiated heresay.
Shooti 14y ago
That shows it working fine on Windows Phone 8, not Windows Phone 7.X. Here's a video of a device running it on 7.X: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTS1f8vqAo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTS1f8vqAo Practically unusable. Seems like they didn't test WP8 devices before making the call for whatever reason.

nostrademons 14y ago

I can't speak for the Maps team because I'm not involved, and I can't speak for Google because, well, I can't speak for my employer. But I've been a developer in very similar situations before, and here's what pops into my mind when I hear statements like this: The team has been pushing hard to get the new functionality out the door. They are perhaps behind schedule, nobody has yet looked at IE, and then someone finally gets their hands on a Windows 8 phone to test. It doesn't work. The product manager makes the call: cut IE support so that the Webkit version can launch on time. A redirect's put in place to avoid serving a completely broken experience to Windows 8 users, so they can at least do a search for businesses instead of having it not work. They launch, the press picks it up, and conspiracy theories start flying. Somebody pages the team, emails start flying, there's a huddle to figure out how to fix it. An engineer (or a few engineers) "donate" their weekend to fixing IE compatibility. They work day and night until the bugs are fixed, and then remove the redirect. PR makes a statement, and then another one once the problem can be fixed. Like all PR statements, they try to say the minimum amount possible to calm people down, since everything they do say will get picked apart by the press. They aren't engineers, they know only what the engineers tell them, and they say even less because whatever the engineers say will get wildly distorted as it passes from engineer -> PM -> PR -> press -> Hacker News. Just my humble conjecture, as an engineer who's been in this situation several times before at a few different organizations (both Google and otherwise). I'd think critically before reaching for pitchforks, though.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
This seems to fit with the fact that even here on HN, people were claiming that Mobile Google Maps did not work with Mobile IE10 but now(?) does. That seems like it would be easy to overlook: Block for broken version, push new version, people change UA and find the new version works in IE10M? Who knows, either way, it seems like Google would rather have more users (for data/to brag about/to show ads to) than block them out of spite for a mobile platform that is still struggling to be relevant.
Strshps1MoreTim 14y ago
This is a possible scenario. On the other hand I've heard first hand a story about MS devs being ordered to break an MS web property on a competing browser. The manager who gave that order now works for Google.
- nostrademons 14y ago
  Eegads, that's depressing. I'd like to think that he'd find that engineers at Google are nowhere near as compliant as they are at Microsoft if he tried that, though. There've been times I've questioned VPs about whether their decisions really are in the best interest of users. Sometimes they explain and I'm satisfied that it really is, and other times I've just flat out refused to do it without an experiment to verify, and we run the experiment and find that it's not, and then the executive lets it drop.
- AnthonyMouse 14y ago
  If this is to be believed as anything other than rumor and innuendo, it would be productive if you could supply the manager's name. Both to prove that it's a real person, and so that anyone in a position to do so is better able to have them fired.
  - taligent 14y ago
    You deserve to be banned for this. You don't attempt to publicly slander a person's reputation (on an influential site like HN no less) based on unsubstantiated heresay.

Shooti 14y ago

That shows it working fine on Windows Phone 8, not Windows Phone 7.X. Here's a video of a device running it on 7.X: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTS1f8vqAo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTS1f8vqAo Practically unusable. Seems like they didn't test WP8 devices before making the call for whatever reason.