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My guess is that a woman who sticks with a guy five years typically wants to get married, but you're right that I don't know, and we may be back to me not under

My guess is that a woman who sticks with a guy five years typically wants to get married, but you're right that I don't know, and we may be back to me not understanding the younger generation. This may, of course, be a UK/US thang... but... My partner and I have been together 17 years. Neither of us want to get married (discussed previously at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4832058 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4832058). Couple of great friends of mine (who I introduced) have been together 24 years. Two kids. Not married. We both have bog standard monogamous relationships and are very happy thank you very much. Neither of us are into any of that new-fangled poly/open stuff ;-) I know a stack of other couples - mostly a bit younger that me I admit - that are in long term monogamous relationships where neither want to get married. Several folk I know who have got married have only done to make some legal stuff easier for the kids, or to deal with immigration hassles (they still want to be together - but the marriage bit was just legal hoop jumping). I don't know about the younger generation (at 49 & 43 I'm not sure my partner and I count ;-) but for me, anyway, "committed monogamous relationship" does not necessarily imply any eagerness to get married.

mattchew 14y ago
If people stop having legal/religious marriages, but mostly end up in long term common law marriages (do you have that term in the UK?), I don't see that as a very important difference. The quality of the relationship matters more than the label you attach to it. That's not really what I perceive the trend to be, though (here on the US side). It looks to me more like an unwillingness to permanently commit to another person at all, and an aversion to taking on the responsibilities of raising a family. The Atlantic article called Jacob a manchild, which is a term I don't think we had such a need for when I was growing up. (By the way I'm only early 40s myself--but boy do I feel out of step with the world these last few years.)
rm445 14y ago
The qualitative difference with the 17 and 24-year relationships is that they're ongoing. The implication is that some people pair for life, with the wedding not being the critical factor, while someone with a string of few-year relationships might have some quite a different view on relationships, a drifter of sorts. (Or, they might just be unlucky). That 'drifter' would be strongly inconvenienced by forming and dissolving marriages every few years. So one way to indicate by the 5-year stage you are not that way inclined and that you are committed to your current relationship is to tie the knot. The signal only works one way - the two of you having chosen not to marry doesn't imply anything (in the strict logical sense).
snogglethorpe 14y ago
I lived in the UK for a while (Edinburgh), and knew tons of couples like you, long-term, with kids, obviously "the real thing" ... but not married. Many were from continental Europe, and there was a clear sense that it was a "normal" thing at least in the circles I moved in (mostly university faculty). The other places I've lived long-term are the U.S. and Japan, and in those places, such relationships seem much more rare. If a couple isn't married, there's a sense the relationship isn't quite real yet, and there's almost certain to be some negative societal reaction to an unmarried couple with kids... not as overt a reaction as it might have been in the past, but still clearly an issue. From my contacts with other east-asian countries (Korea, China, Taiwan), I get the feeling the same is true in those places...they're often still relatively conservative in many ways compared to europe.

mattchew 14y ago

If people stop having legal/religious marriages, but mostly end up in long term common law marriages (do you have that term in the UK?), I don't see that as a very important difference. The quality of the relationship matters more than the label you attach to it. That's not really what I perceive the trend to be, though (here on the US side). It looks to me more like an unwillingness to permanently commit to another person at all, and an aversion to taking on the responsibilities of raising a family. The Atlantic article called Jacob a manchild, which is a term I don't think we had such a need for when I was growing up. (By the way I'm only early 40s myself--but boy do I feel out of step with the world these last few years.)

rm445 14y ago

The qualitative difference with the 17 and 24-year relationships is that they're ongoing. The implication is that some people pair for life, with the wedding not being the critical factor, while someone with a string of few-year relationships might have some quite a different view on relationships, a drifter of sorts. (Or, they might just be unlucky). That 'drifter' would be strongly inconvenienced by forming and dissolving marriages every few years. So one way to indicate by the 5-year stage you are not that way inclined and that you are committed to your current relationship is to tie the knot. The signal only works one way - the two of you having chosen not to marry doesn't imply anything (in the strict logical sense).

snogglethorpe 14y ago

I lived in the UK for a while (Edinburgh), and knew tons of couples like you, long-term, with kids, obviously "the real thing" ... but not married. Many were from continental Europe, and there was a clear sense that it was a "normal" thing at least in the circles I moved in (mostly university faculty). The other places I've lived long-term are the U.S. and Japan, and in those places, such relationships seem much more rare. If a couple isn't married, there's a sense the relationship isn't quite real yet, and there's almost certain to be some negative societal reaction to an unmarried couple with kids... not as overt a reaction as it might have been in the past, but still clearly an issue. From my contacts with other east-asian countries (Korea, China, Taiwan), I get the feeling the same is true in those places...they're often still relatively conservative in many ways compared to europe.