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I really100x want to know who and where these specialty Rails shops are. In short, I am calling out those numbers. 8k/month/dev in a Rails shop, which there a

I really100x want to know who and where these specialty Rails shops are. In short, I am calling out those numbers. 8k/month/dev in a Rails shop, which there are plenty of them around, including those in India, seem like way too much. Especially just for your regular web app dev (just because they can do Rails do not make them special and business care less about the framework). I have been hearing these crazy numbers specifically from patio11 and amy hoy lately but I am not convinced.

pedalpete 14y ago
Those numbers seem conservatively right to me. I know of consulting devs making 30% more, so I assume there are also those making 30% less. What off shore devs are making is not yet having a major effect on what western devs make. The skillset necessary is normally beyond just rails dev.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Note that 8k/mo is calamitously low for a solo consultant. It's a good W2 wage for a full time employee with benefits at a contracting firm, but it's about half of where a consultant should be rate-wise.
  - hello_moto 14y ago
    Yes, I would definitely agree with this.
navyrain 14y ago
My anecdotal experience has been that those salaries are accurate, on a US national average. Lamentably, location plays a significant factor in it -- salaries are notably higher in tech centers like SF and Seattle. Conversely, I've heard of dismally low salaries for rails consultancies in less urban areas (Madison, Wisconsin, in my case). Also, European consultancies tend to compensate developers less than their American brethren. Another easily overlooked factor here is how big and lucrative the B2B custom software market is. If a consultancy can establish a reliable track record, the limiting factor on their success becomes how many developers they're willing/able to hire to handle all the client work they choose to take.
davidw 14y ago
I think the salary numbers are not unreasonable. The variables that are iffy are: * Can you hire and retain quality people? It's not easy. * Can you keep them occupied at those rates? That's not easy either. These two factors must also march in lock-step: get too much work without the people, and quality (or at the very least quality of life) starts to slip. Get too many people without the work and costs start to mount. I do think that 'medium sized consulting businesses' might be in my category #3 though, so it's another area where it'd be very interesting to have some real numbers. Personally, I think that even consultancies should try and productize what they do to some degree, to avoid being spread too thin, but it's tough.
tptacek 14y ago
For billable Rails consultants he is in the ballpark. Anonymous offshore developers are not 1:1 substitutable with boutique Rails consultants.
- hello_moto 14y ago
  Who's hiring these Rails consultants? What type of businesses? Groupon? Companies that develop SaaS product but need temp dev? Most corporates are still in Java/.NET.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    We see a bit of Rails in F500 shops but it's mostly SAAS companies.
    - hello_moto 14y ago
      Interesting. SaaS companies are typically either smaller (hence don't have large budgets) or prefer full-time software engineers. Would you mind, if you have time, to extrapolate why these companies prefer consultant/contractor or even a shop?
      - tptacek 14y ago
        If you can budget an FTE, you can budget a contractor. Lots of SAAS companies have hundreds of employees. I don't know how else to respond to this.

pedalpete 14y ago

Those numbers seem conservatively right to me. I know of consulting devs making 30% more, so I assume there are also those making 30% less. What off shore devs are making is not yet having a major effect on what western devs make. The skillset necessary is normally beyond just rails dev.

tptacek 14y ago
Note that 8k/mo is calamitously low for a solo consultant. It's a good W2 wage for a full time employee with benefits at a contracting firm, but it's about half of where a consultant should be rate-wise.
- hello_moto 14y ago
  Yes, I would definitely agree with this.

navyrain 14y ago

My anecdotal experience has been that those salaries are accurate, on a US national average. Lamentably, location plays a significant factor in it -- salaries are notably higher in tech centers like SF and Seattle. Conversely, I've heard of dismally low salaries for rails consultancies in less urban areas (Madison, Wisconsin, in my case). Also, European consultancies tend to compensate developers less than their American brethren. Another easily overlooked factor here is how big and lucrative the B2B custom software market is. If a consultancy can establish a reliable track record, the limiting factor on their success becomes how many developers they're willing/able to hire to handle all the client work they choose to take.

davidw 14y ago

I think the salary numbers are not unreasonable. The variables that are iffy are: * Can you hire and retain quality people? It's not easy. * Can you keep them occupied at those rates? That's not easy either. These two factors must also march in lock-step: get too much work without the people, and quality (or at the very least quality of life) starts to slip. Get too many people without the work and costs start to mount. I do think that 'medium sized consulting businesses' might be in my category #3 though, so it's another area where it'd be very interesting to have some real numbers. Personally, I think that even consultancies should try and productize what they do to some degree, to avoid being spread too thin, but it's tough.

tptacek 14y ago

For billable Rails consultants he is in the ballpark. Anonymous offshore developers are not 1:1 substitutable with boutique Rails consultants.

hello_moto 14y ago
Who's hiring these Rails consultants? What type of businesses? Groupon? Companies that develop SaaS product but need temp dev? Most corporates are still in Java/.NET.
- tptacek 14y ago
  We see a bit of Rails in F500 shops but it's mostly SAAS companies.
  - hello_moto 14y ago
    Interesting. SaaS companies are typically either smaller (hence don't have large budgets) or prefer full-time software engineers. Would you mind, if you have time, to extrapolate why these companies prefer consultant/contractor or even a shop?
    - tptacek 14y ago
      If you can budget an FTE, you can budget a contractor. Lots of SAAS companies have hundreds of employees. I don't know how else to respond to this.